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Are the best athletes on the field?

Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:38 am
Posted by prplhze2000
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
51387 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:38 am
Saban once told us something rather interesting at a Fight Club luncheon.

When he arrived at LSU, he graded the players in terms of athletic ability. Nearly half of the top 22 athletes were sitting on the bench instead of starting. He said his job was to figure out a way to get those athletes onto the field.

Given some of the complaining about Jefferson and Womack, do you think Kelly is not playing the best athletes he could? Serious question.
Posted by pitchandcatch27
Huntsville,AL
Member since Jul 2018
2194 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:45 am to
I just mentioned this, Saban put the best 22 players on the field regardless of their classification. Obviously CBK is not on board with this philosophy. The best 22 are not on the field at all times with limited breathers or goal line situations. Its nothing but "LOOK" and "COMPLETE PROCESS" from CBK. So I guess we have to be 3-5 or 4-4 till CBK changes his views and its now trying to save a sinking ship.
Posted by OBATiger
Orange Beach
Member since Mar 2023
1157 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:47 am to
No the best are always on the bench
Posted by ThrowITdeep
The End Zone
Member since Sep 2023
154 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:47 am to
Kelly makes a lot of excuses for younger players not being ready.

This would be the best time to throw them in and find out. Bc this season is a wash
Posted by Madking
Member since Apr 2016
47859 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:48 am to
Kelly said House has total control over the entire D. It’s House making the poor personnel choices but IMO Kelly should be stepping in there instead of deferring responsibility.
Posted by dukeg7213
Louisiana
Member since Apr 2023
2957 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:52 am to
That can work to a certain point…

Chris Hilton is a better athlete than Lacy but still has his fair share of drops.

Kylin Jackson is a better athlete than john emery and Josh Williams yet Josh Williams is the better running back at this point and time

Defense I don’t know. They all look unathletic, stiff, and slow minus Perkins and weeks
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
66481 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:54 am to
if you look at thenoffense:

campbell, Jones and Mason Taylor all started last year.

Nabors and Thomas were Sophmores. Goodwin was a Tr Fr getting snaps before he got hurt. Thisnyear Heard had a real opportunity to start but it didn’t work out. Kaleb Jackson is getting touches.

The offense is giving young guys realy reps and on defense we are so hesitant to do that outside Cb which basically is toss up.
Posted by BlackPot
Member since Oct 2016
2060 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:56 am to
No these are the scrubs. Their dads just show up to the booster club meetings and help cook.
Posted by Bayoubengal205
Member since Nov 2016
925 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:57 am to
quote:

IMO Kelly should be stepping in there

I agree. It’s one thing to stay out of the play calling, but as a head coach I think it is VERY normal to have input on personnel.
Unless BK just isn’t aware of who the best players are (which would be unacceptable), I don’t see why he wouldn’t be involved in personnel choices at this point.
Posted by PoppaD
Texas
Member since Feb 2008
4911 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 8:58 am to
It is concerning that it seems many players are having trouble grasping the defensive system and their jobs within it. Apparently it is keeping younger more athletic players on the bench because they haven't learned their job yet. Its slowing players down (Perkins) because they don't understand their roles within the defense.

Former TCU coach, Gary Patterson, has famously said he could teach his entire defense to players in two practices. He has always been known to have and has had highly ranked defenses.

My point is, if House has the more athletic players so confused, that they can't learn the system and get off the bench then his system is to complicated. He needs to simply, simplify, and simplify some more like Gary Patterson does.
Posted by GetmorewithLes
UK Basketball Fan
Member since Jan 2011
19059 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:03 am to
quote:

Saban put the best 22 players on the field regardless of their classification.


Aranda did something like that. He put the most speed on the field on passing downs
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39251 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:12 am to
No. Why are you asking this question? The Head Football Coach has told us that the best players are not on the field.

In his press conference after the Ole Miss loss he said that they are trying to find a balance between scheme and personnel. That’s what that means.

Some of his best talent does not know all of the schemes, so he is simplifying his schemes to get that talent on the field, then smart OCs like Kiffen are annihilating the simplified schemes, and so he switches back to the more complex schemes, in which our less talented players have to play. Then they miss tackles and such. And so it goes.

If you think you can figure this out, think again. The coaches know 50 times what you know, they are thinking about it 10 times as much, and they are 5 times as motivated to solve the problem. Let’s see what they come up with.
Posted by Topwater Trout
Red Stick
Member since Oct 2010
67589 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:15 am to
do you think Saban would put guys who don't know their assignments or plays on the field? There is more to just playing the best athletes.
Posted by Genestealer55
ARLINGTON
Member since May 2017
7268 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:16 am to
Little by little I’m getting the feeling that Kelly is almost as stubborn as Miles was
Posted by Penrod
Member since Jan 2011
39251 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:21 am to
quote:

Saban put the best 22 players on the field regardless of their classification.

That is a different question. I assume the OP meant the most talented players. Saban and Kelly have the same philosophy about putting the best players on the field. By “best players” I mean the ones who give us the best chance of winning. But that is not necessarily the most talented players. Saban NEVER would agree that he has to put the talented players on the field. No player, who doesn’t know his assignments, is playing for Saban.

You mentioned classification. Both Saban and Kelly will kick an upperclassmen to the curb in favor of a freshman who is better. That’s why Kole Taylor is playing for West Virginia and Mason Taylor is playing for LSU. There are tons of examples, just on this LSU team.

We started two freshmen tackles last season. We are working Heard into the lineup this year. Mason Taylor, Mac Markway, Chestnut is on the bench for younger players, Whit Weeks is playing, Ryan Yaites, etc.

That’s a lengthy list, but I’m sure you’ll find some other egregious example of a superstar sitting the bench - until they play your superstar and he’s not.
Posted by pitchandcatch27
Huntsville,AL
Member since Jul 2018
2194 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:24 am to
He is and already has and proved it...."LOOK","PROCESS","WE HAVE TO GET BETTER", "WE HAVE TO COACH BETTER".

There is no discipline on this team and no accountability. Saban would have been up the coaches arse and the players. WTF. Lets talk like it really is an issue. LSU defense was 100% horrible against OM. But, CBK still in denial. House did not have the players ready and made no adjustments. Dumbrock did not either. Ran the same plays and with the #1 offense in the SEC, punts on 4th down and 5. We can seal the game with a 1st down. All we did was give away the game by punting. We had not stopped OM all night, yet we give them the ball with plenty of time to go down the field and score. Yet OM had nor really stopped us all night. Yet we punt on 4th and 5. Pussy's. The coaches lost that game 110% after watching the replay.
Posted by lostinbr
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2017
9345 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:26 am to
I think people are reading way too far into this.

Every team has talented freshmen who see less playing time because they aren’t ready. If anything, I’ve seen us play more freshmen than normal over the past two years. True “day 1 starters” are exceedingly rare, especially among non-early enrollees.

You mentioned Jefferson and Womack. Jefferson is really an outlier in that he’s not a “young player” - he was in the 2019 class at WVU. That said, someone brought up a good point about how the tempo impacted our defensive rotation. This is going to affect the DL more than anything because those guys rotate the most. In hindsight the staff probably should have put Jefferson in to start more drives, though.

It sounds like Womack was in the doghouse for something. I know many don’t agree with that kind of discipline, but it’s been a focus under Kelly and I don’t foresee it changing.

But my larger point with respect to the younger players would be this: the fact that we’ve seen Whit Weeks, Ashton Stamps, Da’Shawn Womak, Kaleb Jackson, and Lance Heard play meaningful snaps at all should already tell you Kelly isn’t afraid to play young guys. All of those guys are true freshmen, and it’s not at all typical to have that many true freshmen playing this early.

On top of that you have the evidence from last year with Campbell, Jones, Taylor, and Perkins.

Anyone who doesn’t think Kelly is willing to play those guys is ignoring the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. People are arguing over whether Weeks and Womack should be #1 at their positions but we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if Kelly truly valued experience over everything, as people like to suggest.
Posted by pitchandcatch27
Huntsville,AL
Member since Jul 2018
2194 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:30 am to
Jackson should be behind Diggs not Emery or Williams.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36017 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:39 am to
quote:

Jackson should be behind Diggs not Emery or Williams.


Why? Because he has more “talent”?

But how does that work out when they come with a play to showcase him and he drops the ball?

Poise is a key asset. Execution is a key asset. It’s a process. Some kids learn it fast; while others never learn it. The trick is to get the talented guys to reach their potential without hurting your chances of winning.
Posted by LaTiger045
franklinton
Member since Oct 2023
35 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 9:46 am to
It does seem that way!
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