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4th and one and the disappearing fullback/h-back
Posted on 8/9/24 at 1:21 am
Posted on 8/9/24 at 1:21 am
In any college game there will always be a handful of third and one and fourth and one plays that can determine the outcome of a close game. LSU supposedly has the best tackle in college football in Will Campbell. Campbell is flanked by the very capable Garrett Dellinger. One would hope with a bruising running back like Caleb Jackson running behind Campbell and Dellinger that LSU will excel at the critical third and one and fourth and one plays.
In the not so distant past, college teams all had a handful of fullbacks and h-backs on their rosters to support the running game. More and more you see teams play with three wideouts and no fullbacks in their offense. I dont know if LSU even has a fullback or h-back anymore. That makes the loss of Markway more concerning. We have but three SEC caliber tight ends who will have many roles in the run game.
So I wonder if anyone knows the plan for blockers on critical short yardage plays against 8 man fronts. Will LSU put a tight end in the game in the fullback spot to lead the play? Or do you take your backup guard or tackle with the best feet and let him lead Jackson into the hole?
I am hoping with the best offensive tackle in college football that LSU will be one of the better short yardage teams. But defenses will probably load up the box, so you need that extra blocker, that used to be a fullback, in the game. Or I guess you can leave three receivers in and spread it out, but thats tricky if the defense goes heavy inside.
Anybody have any idea who leads Jackson or Williams into the hole? It’s not just LSU, you just dont see many fullbacks or h-backs starting college games these days. And with a shortage of tight ends at LSU, do they use one as a fullback on short yardage? I would think they use the most agile back up offensive linemen they have, but I’m just guessing. They must be running short yardage plays in practice now. I trust the coaches can figure out the best way to take advantage of Campbell and Jackson on fourth and one, the ability to go for it and make it is huge.
Or I guess Jackson could be your fullback and have Williams run behind him? I am just curious, I’m sure some on here have know how they do short yardage in practice.
In the not so distant past, college teams all had a handful of fullbacks and h-backs on their rosters to support the running game. More and more you see teams play with three wideouts and no fullbacks in their offense. I dont know if LSU even has a fullback or h-back anymore. That makes the loss of Markway more concerning. We have but three SEC caliber tight ends who will have many roles in the run game.
So I wonder if anyone knows the plan for blockers on critical short yardage plays against 8 man fronts. Will LSU put a tight end in the game in the fullback spot to lead the play? Or do you take your backup guard or tackle with the best feet and let him lead Jackson into the hole?
I am hoping with the best offensive tackle in college football that LSU will be one of the better short yardage teams. But defenses will probably load up the box, so you need that extra blocker, that used to be a fullback, in the game. Or I guess you can leave three receivers in and spread it out, but thats tricky if the defense goes heavy inside.
Anybody have any idea who leads Jackson or Williams into the hole? It’s not just LSU, you just dont see many fullbacks or h-backs starting college games these days. And with a shortage of tight ends at LSU, do they use one as a fullback on short yardage? I would think they use the most agile back up offensive linemen they have, but I’m just guessing. They must be running short yardage plays in practice now. I trust the coaches can figure out the best way to take advantage of Campbell and Jackson on fourth and one, the ability to go for it and make it is huge.
Or I guess Jackson could be your fullback and have Williams run behind him? I am just curious, I’m sure some on here have know how they do short yardage in practice.
15
Posted on 8/9/24 at 1:48 am to paper tiger
Most teams, both in the NFL and college, will have at least 2 TE’s in the game and lots of times 3, when it’s 3rd or 4th and goal from the 1 or so. They will put a TE in motion and that TE will be your FB as the RB will follow the TE as he tries to clear a hole between the guard and tackle.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 4:07 am to paper tiger
quote:That's BK's problem now. He ran MM off by not giving him enough "Pass Catching" reps in practice, so now he has NO Run Blocking TE's outside of Taylor. (Pimpton and Green are NOT run blocking TE's) Hopefully there's a walk-on TE/Fullback "Lunch Pail White Guy" on the roster that just WANTS to block and is good at it.
Anybody have any idea who leads Jackson or Williams into the hole?
quote:You're living in a fantasy world if the thought even popped into your head that Kaleb Jackson is a fullback.
I guess Jackson could be your fullback and have Williams run behind him?
Posted on 8/9/24 at 4:28 am to semjase
quote:
You're living in a fantasy world if the thought even popped into your head that Kaleb Jackson is a fullback.
I could have maybe been more clear. My first thought, as set forth in the original post, is that Jackson would be the go to back to carry the ball in short yardage because of his size and physicality.
Those same attributes would also make him a good blocker if they had no one better to fill that role. Williams is also a physical back who could be used in short yardage.
If LSU has a guard with the agility to play the fullback role, that would be my preference. It wouldn’t even surprise me to see a defensive lineman used as a blocking back in short yardage. Defensive linemen tend to be lighter on their feet than offensive lineman and the lead blocker needs to be quick enough to hit the hole before the back.
All that said, in an old fashioned offensive backfield, Jackson possesses the size and physicality to have been a good fullback or tailback. But thats way back in the day where fullbacks got their fair share of carries. Jackson is too good a ball carrier to be a full time blocking back. I was just thinking through all the possibilities and I could see LSU in some formations with Williams and Jackson in the backfield. In that case, which ever back doesnt get the ball blocks for the other. All offensive players, save the qb maybe, are blockers on running plays if they dont have the ball.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 4:28 am to paper tiger
I vote for Jacobian Guillory as the FB in goaline situations.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 5:39 am to paper tiger
Fullback is such a meaningless position in the modern game. Also weird novel for 1:30 am
Posted on 8/9/24 at 6:48 am to paper tiger
quote:
So I wonder if anyone knows the plan for blockers on critical short yardage plays against 8 man fronts.
the offense dictates the fronts. Pretty simple.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 6:55 am to paper tiger
You just spread everyone out wide. Clear the box and let Joe burrow run a qb draw for a TD.
Seriously. If you stretch the line of scrimmage horizontally it clears the box and you don’t need a FB as opposed the the Les Miles generation of rugby scrums. But you do have to be willing to throw the ball out wide if the defense doesn’t widen out with your spread.
Seriously. If you stretch the line of scrimmage horizontally it clears the box and you don’t need a FB as opposed the the Les Miles generation of rugby scrums. But you do have to be willing to throw the ball out wide if the defense doesn’t widen out with your spread.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 6:59 am to paper tiger
80s Bill Walsh split back formation with Harold Perkins
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:11 am to semjase
quote:
popped into your head that Kaleb Jackson is a fullback.
1. You are a jackass. No need to be insulting
2. It's obvious he was talking about situational football. Don't see it as much now, but it was extremely common for RBs to get some reps @ fullback (Hester, Mike Allstott, Natrone Means, etc..) and vice verse
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:14 am to paper tiger
Old school two back formations. I like it. Jackson is a beast, and JW is a great blocker for his size. Plus, with two runners in the backfield, they can't key on one guy
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:32 am to paper tiger
Op:
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:33 am to paper tiger
If you take that fullback and split him out wide then you take one player out of the box/play without needing to block them.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:33 am to paper tiger
Serious question, when is the last time you saw LSU lineup with a fullback? We don’t even line up under center anymore.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 7:36 am to paper tiger
quote:
So I wonder if anyone knows the plan for blockers on critical short yardage plays against 8 man fronts.
Offense dictates what front the defense is in. Not the other way around.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 8:12 am to RidiculousHype
Would not mind seeing a little more Perk on the goalline offense
Posted on 8/9/24 at 8:12 am to paper tiger
Guards pulling, kicking, and wrapping can take the spot of a full back. Counters (with or without Tackles) and powers can be run with guards.
LBs have gotten comparatively smaller too, so you don't need a lineman-sized FB to lead through the hole.
LBs have gotten comparatively smaller too, so you don't need a lineman-sized FB to lead through the hole.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 9:15 am to paper tiger
LSU’s best offensive lines in recent years have struggle with blocking in short yardage situations. Even the Moore trophy offensive line. They are better off spreading things out than they are bunching up and trying to get a push.
Maybe this will be the year I feel confident we can get that 1-2 yard push, but until they prove it to me I will always hope they spread it out in short yardage situations and give the runner, if they run, the option to pick his hole.
Maybe this will be the year I feel confident we can get that 1-2 yard push, but until they prove it to me I will always hope they spread it out in short yardage situations and give the runner, if they run, the option to pick his hole.
Posted on 8/9/24 at 9:38 am to ChEgrad
On short yardage goal line
I think I would pass to the corner of the end zone to Green, 6' 7" TE, not sure who could guard against that. Keon Coleman for FSU demonstrates how well that can work and he was 6' 4"
The second choice is finding a "refrigerator" type player to carry the ball behind the OL
I think I would pass to the corner of the end zone to Green, 6' 7" TE, not sure who could guard against that. Keon Coleman for FSU demonstrates how well that can work and he was 6' 4"
The second choice is finding a "refrigerator" type player to carry the ball behind the OL
Posted on 8/9/24 at 9:41 am to paper tiger
We ran a 4th and 1 under center play against Wisconsin during the bowl game
We didn’t even come close to making it back to the line of scrimmage
We didn’t even come close to making it back to the line of scrimmage
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