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NIL, is not supposed to be based on play.

Posted on 12/26/22 at 1:32 pm
Posted by DeafVallyBatnR
Member since Sep 2004
17624 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 1:32 pm
I have to think at some point rules are going to be installed.

The NC QB 5 million offer. He did not leave but I would bet NC ponyed up something to get him to stay.

I think the dirtiest recruiter in the game is Kirby. He gets cover because of his last 2 schools get talent.

Tampering is a huge issue. At the very least they need to have a third party contact rule. If the kid or his parents contact other schools this could be okay. Uncles and agents need to be tampering violations.

This post was edited on 12/26/22 at 3:19 pm
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
32102 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

I have to think at some point rules are going to be installed.


The NCAA would lose in court on any challenge to limit NIL. And there are already rules that the school can't pay a player to play for their team. But if Gordon McKernan wants to pay a LSU player $50k to appear on a billboard advertising his law firm, the NCAA can't prohibit that. Even if in actuality that $50k is simply to make sure the player plays for LSU.

The problem is not NIL in isolation. It is NIL coupled with the new freedom of transfer rules. The transfer rule has created "free agency" more than anything. Do things cool down a bit after the first wave of players have transferred early and can't do so again without sitting out a year? Maybe to some extent. But if the NCAA is going to give waivers out willy-nilly that won't matter.

College football fans don't want to hear or accept this, but probably the best LEGAL way to bring about more concrete rules and restrictions is to have the determination made that the players are "employees". If/when that occurs, that will allow the players to form a union that can collectively bargain with the NCAA. THEN more firm rules and restrictions can be put in play like in professional sports leagues.

Until then, the only thing the NCAA can do to curb some of this is to revoke the "one free transfer rule".
Posted by Tigerpride18
Lakewood Colorado
Member since Sep 2017
30945 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 1:59 pm to
The Nc state qb thing was reported to be bullshite
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
32007 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 2:42 pm to
quote:

The NCAA would lose in court on any challenge to limit NIL.


quote:


And there are already rules that the school can't pay a player to play for their team


So you are saying there ARE limits?



Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
285010 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:12 pm to
quote:

NIL, is not supposed to be based on play.


Who told you that lol
Posted by 1984Tiger
North Carolina
Member since Apr 2006
7585 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:13 pm to
quote:


The Nc state qb thing was reported to be bullshite

UNC, not NC State. Here in North Carolina that’s like using LSU and University of Louisiana (ULALA) interchangeably
Posted by lsuexpert57
Back Brusly
Member since Oct 2008
1627 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:18 pm to
There are NO limits on NIL payments because they cannot legally be imposed by the NCAA or the schools. It was never legal for a a school to pay a player to play and it still is not legal. Schools cannot legally get involved with NIL agreements...that is strictly between the player and whatever person or company that is paying them the NIL money.
Posted by DeafVallyBatnR
Member since Sep 2004
17624 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:21 pm to
Would you get upset if I said Illinois and pronounced the S.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
32007 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:29 pm to
quote:

There are NO limits on NIL payments because they cannot legally be imposed by the NCAA or the schools. It was never legal for a a school to pay a player to play and it still is not legal. Schools cannot legally get involved with NIL agreements...that is strictly between the player and whatever person or company that is paying them the NIL money.


OK Mr. NCAA dude, relax.

There are, in fact, limits.

If you limit the process, you limit the amounts.

Just the idea that there is a rule against using NIL to entice players to sign, limits the amounts. (I know schools do this anyway)

Everything that is claimed can't be regulated is already regulated, including transfers and NIL.

So, everyone claiming this can't be controlled, just doesn't want it controlled. Which is fine. Let's just be honest about it.




Posted by redfieldk717
Alec Box
Member since Oct 2011
28117 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 3:34 pm to
Georgia didn’t take any portal players last year so how can you say Kirby is the dirtiest in the game? I’m not defending Kirby but it least have your facts straight before spewing nonsense.
Posted by geauxtigers33
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2014
13734 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

is not supposed to be based on play.


It’s not supposed to be tied to if a player plays or not as in you can’t stipulate the player has to play in X amount of game or for X amount of years or it can’t be tied to future on the field incentives.

It can definitely be based on things the player has done previously on the field.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
75494 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 7:10 pm to
The issue will always be a chicken and an egg with local businesses

You can say Gordon McKernan is paying players to play at LSU, but why would a company solely based in LA and doing 99% of its business here give an endorsement to a player anywhere else?
Posted by misey94
Hernando, MS
Member since Jan 2007
28164 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 9:38 pm to
quote:

The NCAA would lose in court on any challenge to limit NIL. And there are already rules that the school can't pay a player to play for their team. But if Gordon McKernan wants to pay a LSU player $50k to appear on a billboard advertising his law firm, the NCAA can't prohibit that. Even if in actuality that $50k is simply to make sure the player plays for LSU.


The NCAA or the federal government can crack down on or prohibit collectives in different ways. They are the primary source of pay for play money and kneecapping them would help stabilize the system. That wouldn’t strictly prohibit players from making money through NIL, so it wouldn’t go against the Supreme Court’s ruling.
Posted by LifeAquatic
Member since Dec 2019
1975 posts
Posted on 12/26/22 at 11:36 pm to
quote:

So you are saying there ARE limits?



No. Because the type of limit he mentioned isn’t actually a limit on *NIL*. NIL is something that (theoretically) happens independent of universities and athletics programs.

Saying “you can’t offer a player $50k to attend your school” isn’t a “limit on NIL” because that type of payment isn’t categorized as NIL in the first place.


Any restriction on *actual* NIL payments—eg the salary cap idea everyone always brings up—would get struck down in court in a millisecond. The NCAA can legislate about what programs are and aren’t allowed to do as part of recruiting, but if ol’ bubba at the car dealership wants to pay a kid to be in a commercial—with no official connection to recruiting or CFB—then there’s nothing the NCAA can do about it.
This post was edited on 12/26/22 at 11:46 pm
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
17457 posts
Posted on 12/27/22 at 7:16 am to
quote:

NIL, is not supposed to be based on play.
There's a fine line, technically, on pay-for-play and "paying for enrollment". It is a matter of wording on an agreement (see TAMU) on what qualifies them to get their NIL checks vs. NCAA rules against basing pay on play.

quote:

Tampering is a huge issue. At the very least they need to have a third party contact rule. If the kid or his parents contact other schools this could be okay. Uncles and agents need to be tampering violations.
The NCAA can only regulate what they have authority to regulate. That would be member schools and students enrolled at those schools. They can't regulate anyone not under that umbrella so using cut-outs, such as an uncle, they really can't do anything about. They can't regulate the general public. Nor do they have a duty to the general public either, conversely, just to make an extra point.
This post was edited on 12/27/22 at 7:18 am
Posted by Bedtiger
Thibodaux
Member since Dec 2018
300 posts
Posted on 12/27/22 at 8:19 am to
Agree NiL limits would have problems in court, so allow all that corruption. Now force universities to track and report all NiL deals involving students then require the university pay a punitive amount to NCAA for amounts larger than some limit. Problem solved, it’s not very hard to impose limits!
Posted by geauxtigers33
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2014
13734 posts
Posted on 12/27/22 at 8:29 am to
quote:

it’s not very hard to impose limits!


Yes it is. The moment you put a limitation on what a person can make off of themselves the lawsuits will come out. That is the whole point of how NIL became a thing.

Think of it like a pro sports league. The universities and the league they play in can only control what they pay a player. In pro leagues this is a salary in college athletics it is a scholarship. You are not allowed to limit what a player makes outside of that using their Name, Image, or Likeness also known as endorsements.

And yes I know the way NIL is being used is not the way it is intended to be but you still will not be able to put limitations on it without lawsuits.
Posted by AlxTgr
Kyre Banorg
Member since Oct 2003
84322 posts
Posted on 12/27/22 at 11:06 am to
quote:

NIL, is not supposed to be
...an enticement. It was supposed to be for players who made a name for themselves, based upon their play, and were being used unfairly by the business world. In theory, these high school athletes should never have been a part of it, as almost no one knows what they look like, and do not even have a college number yet.
Posted by Bjorn Cyborg
Member since Sep 2016
32007 posts
Posted on 12/27/22 at 7:35 pm to
But AKSHUALLY ….

You are talking semantics, not in the actual application.

If you limit the process, you limit NIL.

My point is that it is possible to place limits.

Limits exist on NIL and transfers.

I can come up with a dozen scenarios for both that would not be allowed, yet they are supposed to be unrestricted.

Just the concept of a “portal window” or deadlines for immediate eligibility are restrictions on transfers.

Limits on how NIL is negotiated, legit reasons on how it can be earned, or from who, are restrictions.

The NCAA or some other group (conferences, playoff committee, etc) can control all this.

They are choosing not to at this point.


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