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Why don't A/C condensing units come installed with soft start devices?

Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:25 am
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
24338 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:25 am
Also, is there a brand/model of soft starts I should be considering?

This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:43 am
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20019 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:28 am to
unnecessary added expense to an already expensive purchase.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
21074 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:32 am to
quote:

Chicken
It's really weird thinking about you as a normal person who encounters A/C problems.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 10:32 am
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
24338 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:00 am to
quote:

unnecessary added expense to an already expensive purchase
are you in the HVAC industry?
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
43130 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:00 am to
electrician installed one for my units when they installed the generator. If you are doing this to accommodate a generator talk to them
Posted by FishinTygah84
LA
Member since Dec 2013
2033 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:03 am to
RUUD/Rheem is where you want to be. We rep all brands of ACs but thats the favorite.

It's like the honda accord/ toyota camry of ACs. Affordable, reliable, cost effective to fix and maintain, easy to get parts.

Carrier is another good brand but typically a tad more expensive.

As for the soft start question, it's not that big of a deal. 95% of units in america don't have them and run just fine. Just preference to add one
Posted by Dallaswho
Texas
Member since Dec 2023
2502 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:08 am to
You’d have 2x the capacitors to fail, more troubleshooting, etc.
RVs make universal sense as they are meant to be portable. Outside of hurricane country, there isn’t much concern for limited backup power.
All ACs will be variable speed in a few years anyway.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:09 am
Posted by CrawDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
5600 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:10 am to
HVAC manufacturers don’t even put decent USA-made capacitors in condensing units, which might add $20 to the cost of a HVAC.

Multi-Stage VFD HVAC by nature of their variable speed DC motors-compressors & electronics de facto are “soft start” systems, but of course those units are at a minimum several thousand more expensive than single stage units - cheaper to install a soft start capacitor in a single stage or two stage system after the fact.

The experts state all major manufacturers make “good” units, but it’s the installers and attention to detail in the install that is most important. Each manufacturer will have a “good”, “better”, “best” line of options for you to consider. Also remember this Trane=American Standard, Carrier=Bryant, Rheem=Ruud, Goodman=Daikan=Amana - meaning “same products, made in same factory, usually a different color and name on the equipment.

I personally would have no issue installing any major brand-manufacturer. Last year I changed out my unit with a Trane, but I was shopping the installer not the manufacturer - just so happens this installer was a Trane authorized dealer. BTW, Trane-American Standard are made-assembled in TX, as is Daikan-Goodman-Amana.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 2:33 pm
Posted by Wraytex
San Antonio - Gonzales
Member since Jun 2020
2890 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:11 am to
My Ruud wholesaler sells quite a bit of Bosch equipment. My 3 yr old inverter heat pump has been pretty solid. After years of watching the needle jump on the old amp meters upon compressor startup, it's cool to see the compressor start off at 1 amp and increase from there.

FYI, if your new unit comes with an integrated zero run through contactor/circuit board, the micro air easy start may not work.
Posted by TheBoo
South to Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
5095 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:28 am to
quote:

Why don't A/C condensing units come installed with soft start devices?


I asked two well known HVAC companies in my area about installing a soft starter and they weren't familiar with what I was talking about. That was surprising to me. When I said soft starter, they confusingly said "you mean hard start"?

Interesting that it's not more popular or common in the industry.
Posted by Dallaswho
Texas
Member since Dec 2023
2502 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:31 am to
quote:

hard start

That was common 25+ years ago before scroll compressors.
Interestingly, soft start kits also include hard start caps to make up for phase shift due to added resistance.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
17765 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:33 am to
I've been doing a lot of research and I've narrowed my decision to Micro-Air Flex. I don't need them for generator use but my house was built in the 1960's with a split-bus electrical panel and as such even with just 2- and 3-ton systems my lights flicker everytime one of the systems comes on. I don't buy into the claims that soft-starts increase compressor life or reduce operating cost since that isn't how the physics works but my area has pretty low-grade infrastructure so I look at it the same way I look at surge protectors for my sensitive electronics. Another reason I am going with Micro-Air is that they have an easily accessible monitoring system that can identify an issue if something goes wrong, very often a soft-start can do its job and shut down the system to protect from a line issue but if you don't know the soft-starter needs to be reset then you'll waste time and money for a technician visit you don't really need.
Posted by UPGDude
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2021
646 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:36 am to
100% Cost issue.
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
24338 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:46 am to
quote:

FishinTygah84
I should have been more specific...I am asking for makes and models of soft start devices...
Posted by Chicken
Jackassistan
Member since Aug 2003
24338 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:51 am to
quote:

I asked two well known HVAC companies in my area about installing a soft starter and they weren't familiar with what I was talking about. That was surprising to me.
I had never heard of the devices until a month ago...

now that I am considering a generator, I am being told to install them.
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20019 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:55 am to
quote:

Interestingly, soft start kits also include hard start caps to make up for phase shift due to added resistance.


Not trying to be that guy but resistance doesn't impact phase angle or power factor. Capacitance or inductance does. The capacitors are there to store energy and release it at startup so the increased amperage comes more from the capacitors and less from the circuit feeding the unit.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:57 am
Posted by notsince98
KC, MO
Member since Oct 2012
20019 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:56 am to
quote:

now that I am considering a generator, I am being told to install them.


That is probably a good idea unless you have 2-stage or variable speed equipment. With multi-stage equipment it isnt bad but just might not be necessary.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:57 am
Posted by LSUDad
Still on the move
Member since May 2004
60632 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:58 am to
quote:

All ACs will be variable speed in a few years anyway.


This may be true. From my understanding, variable speed units will not take or need a soft start.

Also, too add, adding a soft start, could/will void your warranty.
Posted by Dallaswho
Texas
Member since Dec 2023
2502 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 12:20 pm to
quote:

Not trying to be that guy but resistance doesn't impact phase angle or power factor. Capacitance or inductance does. The capacitors are there to store energy and release it at startup so the increased amperage comes more from the capacitors and less from the circuit feeding the unit.

So you’re trying to say resistance doesn’t affect phase angle in a 60hz RLC system? Put it in the textbooks!
Edit:
Capacitors increasing alternating current also breaks the first law of thermodynamics.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 12:26 pm
Posted by DVinBR
Member since Jan 2013
14575 posts
Posted on 7/17/24 at 12:30 pm to
I like my Hyper Engineering soft starter because the unit is small enough to fit into the electrical panel on the side of the condenser. I didn't need to mount it someway on the outside of the condenser unit.
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