- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Why don't A/C condensing units come installed with soft start devices?
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:25 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:25 am
Also, is there a brand/model of soft starts I should be considering?
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:43 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:28 am to Chicken
unnecessary added expense to an already expensive purchase.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 10:32 am to Chicken
quote:It's really weird thinking about you as a normal person who encounters A/C problems.
Chicken
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 10:32 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:00 am to notsince98
quote:are you in the HVAC industry?
unnecessary added expense to an already expensive purchase
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:00 am to Chicken
electrician installed one for my units when they installed the generator. If you are doing this to accommodate a generator talk to them
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:03 am to Chicken
RUUD/Rheem is where you want to be. We rep all brands of ACs but thats the favorite.
It's like the honda accord/ toyota camry of ACs. Affordable, reliable, cost effective to fix and maintain, easy to get parts.
Carrier is another good brand but typically a tad more expensive.
As for the soft start question, it's not that big of a deal. 95% of units in america don't have them and run just fine. Just preference to add one
It's like the honda accord/ toyota camry of ACs. Affordable, reliable, cost effective to fix and maintain, easy to get parts.
Carrier is another good brand but typically a tad more expensive.
As for the soft start question, it's not that big of a deal. 95% of units in america don't have them and run just fine. Just preference to add one
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:08 am to Chicken
You’d have 2x the capacitors to fail, more troubleshooting, etc.
RVs make universal sense as they are meant to be portable. Outside of hurricane country, there isn’t much concern for limited backup power.
All ACs will be variable speed in a few years anyway.
RVs make universal sense as they are meant to be portable. Outside of hurricane country, there isn’t much concern for limited backup power.
All ACs will be variable speed in a few years anyway.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:09 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:10 am to Chicken
HVAC manufacturers don’t even put decent USA-made capacitors in condensing units, which might add $20 to the cost of a HVAC.
Multi-Stage VFD HVAC by nature of their variable speed DC motors-compressors & electronics de facto are “soft start” systems, but of course those units are at a minimum several thousand more expensive than single stage units - cheaper to install a soft start capacitor in a single stage or two stage system after the fact.
The experts state all major manufacturers make “good” units, but it’s the installers and attention to detail in the install that is most important. Each manufacturer will have a “good”, “better”, “best” line of options for you to consider. Also remember this Trane=American Standard, Carrier=Bryant, Rheem=Ruud, Goodman=Daikan=Amana - meaning “same products, made in same factory, usually a different color and name on the equipment.
I personally would have no issue installing any major brand-manufacturer. Last year I changed out my unit with a Trane, but I was shopping the installer not the manufacturer - just so happens this installer was a Trane authorized dealer. BTW, Trane-American Standard are made-assembled in TX, as is Daikan-Goodman-Amana.
Multi-Stage VFD HVAC by nature of their variable speed DC motors-compressors & electronics de facto are “soft start” systems, but of course those units are at a minimum several thousand more expensive than single stage units - cheaper to install a soft start capacitor in a single stage or two stage system after the fact.
The experts state all major manufacturers make “good” units, but it’s the installers and attention to detail in the install that is most important. Each manufacturer will have a “good”, “better”, “best” line of options for you to consider. Also remember this Trane=American Standard, Carrier=Bryant, Rheem=Ruud, Goodman=Daikan=Amana - meaning “same products, made in same factory, usually a different color and name on the equipment.
I personally would have no issue installing any major brand-manufacturer. Last year I changed out my unit with a Trane, but I was shopping the installer not the manufacturer - just so happens this installer was a Trane authorized dealer. BTW, Trane-American Standard are made-assembled in TX, as is Daikan-Goodman-Amana.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 2:33 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:11 am to Chicken
My Ruud wholesaler sells quite a bit of Bosch equipment. My 3 yr old inverter heat pump has been pretty solid. After years of watching the needle jump on the old amp meters upon compressor startup, it's cool to see the compressor start off at 1 amp and increase from there.
FYI, if your new unit comes with an integrated zero run through contactor/circuit board, the micro air easy start may not work.
FYI, if your new unit comes with an integrated zero run through contactor/circuit board, the micro air easy start may not work.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:28 am to Chicken
quote:
Why don't A/C condensing units come installed with soft start devices?
I asked two well known HVAC companies in my area about installing a soft starter and they weren't familiar with what I was talking about. That was surprising to me. When I said soft starter, they confusingly said "you mean hard start"?
Interesting that it's not more popular or common in the industry.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:31 am to TheBoo
quote:
hard start
That was common 25+ years ago before scroll compressors.
Interestingly, soft start kits also include hard start caps to make up for phase shift due to added resistance.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:33 am to Chicken
I've been doing a lot of research and I've narrowed my decision to Micro-Air Flex. I don't need them for generator use but my house was built in the 1960's with a split-bus electrical panel and as such even with just 2- and 3-ton systems my lights flicker everytime one of the systems comes on. I don't buy into the claims that soft-starts increase compressor life or reduce operating cost since that isn't how the physics works but my area has pretty low-grade infrastructure so I look at it the same way I look at surge protectors for my sensitive electronics. Another reason I am going with Micro-Air is that they have an easily accessible monitoring system that can identify an issue if something goes wrong, very often a soft-start can do its job and shut down the system to protect from a line issue but if you don't know the soft-starter needs to be reset then you'll waste time and money for a technician visit you don't really need.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:46 am to FishinTygah84
quote:I should have been more specific...I am asking for makes and models of soft start devices...
FishinTygah84
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:51 am to TheBoo
quote:I had never heard of the devices until a month ago...
I asked two well known HVAC companies in my area about installing a soft starter and they weren't familiar with what I was talking about. That was surprising to me.
now that I am considering a generator, I am being told to install them.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:55 am to Dallaswho
quote:
Interestingly, soft start kits also include hard start caps to make up for phase shift due to added resistance.
Not trying to be that guy but resistance doesn't impact phase angle or power factor. Capacitance or inductance does. The capacitors are there to store energy and release it at startup so the increased amperage comes more from the capacitors and less from the circuit feeding the unit.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:57 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:56 am to Chicken
quote:
now that I am considering a generator, I am being told to install them.
That is probably a good idea unless you have 2-stage or variable speed equipment. With multi-stage equipment it isnt bad but just might not be necessary.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 11:57 am
Posted on 7/17/24 at 11:58 am to Dallaswho
quote:
All ACs will be variable speed in a few years anyway.
This may be true. From my understanding, variable speed units will not take or need a soft start.
Also, too add, adding a soft start, could/will void your warranty.
Posted on 7/17/24 at 12:20 pm to notsince98
quote:
Not trying to be that guy but resistance doesn't impact phase angle or power factor. Capacitance or inductance does. The capacitors are there to store energy and release it at startup so the increased amperage comes more from the capacitors and less from the circuit feeding the unit.
So you’re trying to say resistance doesn’t affect phase angle in a 60hz RLC system? Put it in the textbooks!
Edit:
Capacitors increasing alternating current also breaks the first law of thermodynamics.
This post was edited on 7/17/24 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 7/17/24 at 12:30 pm to Chicken
I like my Hyper Engineering soft starter because the unit is small enough to fit into the electrical panel on the side of the condenser. I didn't need to mount it someway on the outside of the condenser unit.
Popular
Back to top
