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Message
Leaking Large tile Shower for home that is 7 years old… legal question
Posted on 4/19/23 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 4/19/23 at 6:08 pm
I have a large walk in tile shower that has 2 open entry openings and 2 shower heads on the wall. The shower, when installed, was a 8-10k job. My home was new and I hired the general contractor who was in charge of all the subs, except HVAC and Electrical. After 4-5 years, I noticed a section of the wall, near the open walk in portion of the shower, started to show water damage. My initial thought was it was from splashing water on that area of the wall.
Fast forward to now and I decided to hire a tile company to come and investigate. Once they peeled away the tile, they realized the installation was done without wall waterproof. Cement board was placed onto the studs and then the tile was laid over the cement board, separated only by mortar. There was a pan on the bottom but only came up roughly 6-12 inches from the floor up the wall.
Apparently, water was channeling down and around the wall and causing water damage in that one location. Black mold has formed in this area. No telling what the rest of the shower looks like behind the wall as I have yet to have that part removed.
The new quote for complete demo and for the shower to be properly fixed, using the Shluter water proofing system, is 15k.
I’ve filed a claim on my insurance hoping they would pay some if not all of it but it’s not necessarily from a busted pipe and it’s from water getting behind the tile on a crappy install job.
Also, I had a 2 year home warranty from the builder. Even though it’s been 7 years, I’ve contacted the builder and he’s offered to pay my deductible if the insurance covers the cost.
My other question is, would a builder be responsible legally and could he be sued for a proper repair and fix, since it wasn’t done properly from the beginning, even with no warranty being in effect? I know anyone can be sued but, does anyone have experience with an issue like this and had a positive resolution?
Fast forward to now and I decided to hire a tile company to come and investigate. Once they peeled away the tile, they realized the installation was done without wall waterproof. Cement board was placed onto the studs and then the tile was laid over the cement board, separated only by mortar. There was a pan on the bottom but only came up roughly 6-12 inches from the floor up the wall.
Apparently, water was channeling down and around the wall and causing water damage in that one location. Black mold has formed in this area. No telling what the rest of the shower looks like behind the wall as I have yet to have that part removed.
The new quote for complete demo and for the shower to be properly fixed, using the Shluter water proofing system, is 15k.
I’ve filed a claim on my insurance hoping they would pay some if not all of it but it’s not necessarily from a busted pipe and it’s from water getting behind the tile on a crappy install job.
Also, I had a 2 year home warranty from the builder. Even though it’s been 7 years, I’ve contacted the builder and he’s offered to pay my deductible if the insurance covers the cost.
My other question is, would a builder be responsible legally and could he be sued for a proper repair and fix, since it wasn’t done properly from the beginning, even with no warranty being in effect? I know anyone can be sued but, does anyone have experience with an issue like this and had a positive resolution?
This post was edited on 4/19/23 at 6:27 pm
11
Posted on 4/19/23 at 6:44 pm to Asleepinthecove
Take the deductible money before you insurance company sues him.
Posted on 4/19/23 at 7:03 pm to armsdealer
So you believe the insurance company will likely pay for the repairs, even though it’s not from a busted pipe, and then would turn around and sue the contractor for a crappy install job?
This post was edited on 4/19/23 at 7:17 pm
Posted on 4/19/23 at 7:38 pm to Asleepinthecove
Insurance will only pay for sudden and accidental water damage. You first noticed water damage 2-3 years ago. I wouldn't expect any help from your insurance company.
This post was edited on 4/19/23 at 7:41 pm
Posted on 4/19/23 at 7:54 pm to Asleepinthecove
Insurance won’t pay that. It has to be an event that caused the damage. Not improper construction. After 7 years I don’t think the builder has any legal responsibility but I could be wrong. You could always sue him in small claims court.
Posted on 4/19/23 at 9:09 pm to Asleepinthecove
Had a similar situation on a home that was 5 years old. Hairline crack in grout in an inconspicuous location. They didn't have waterproof membrane that high and soaked an exterior wall. Had to rip it out and dry everything. The retailer the shower. Was 5k for me at the time (~6 or 7 years ago). In a new house now so not sure how it held up.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 7:11 am to Asleepinthecove
7 years old I think you are pretty screwed. I’m surprised your builder offered anything and I doubt he will say anything more moving forward.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 10:12 am to Asleepinthecove
Builder will not be held responsible. Suing him at this point would waste your time and more money than it would take to repair.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 10:31 am to Asleepinthecove
BAd craftsmanship is NOT covered by insurance...only stormwater intrusion.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 10:54 am to Asleepinthecove
Yea man, I'd be pissed. But you have no insurance/legal options. You will unfortunately have to eat the cost. I would reach out to the GC and ask that they make it right and cover some of the costs (maybe provide free labor and you provide mats?), but they aren't on the hook for it.
Go in person and make them say no to your face.
Go in person and make them say no to your face.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 10:57 am to Asleepinthecove
quote:
would a builder be responsible legally and could he be sued for a proper repair and fix,
not a lawyer: If you are in Louisiana, my opinion is the contractor unfortunately isn't liable. The new home warranty is what you need to read LINK. They really aren't liable for much after teh first two years and nothing after 5 years.
quote:
§3144. Warranties; exclusions A. Subject to the exclusions provided in Subsection B of this Section, every builder warrants the following to the owner: (1) One year following the warranty commencement date, the home will be free from any defect due to noncompliance with the building standards or due to other defects in materials or workmanship not regulated by building standards. (2) Two years following the warranty commencement date, the plumbing, electrical, heating, cooling, and ventilating systems exclusive of any appliance, fixture, and equipment will be free from any defect due to noncompliance with the building standards or due to other defects in materials or workmanship not regulated by building standards. (3) Five years following the warranty commencement date, the home will be free from major structural defects due to noncompliance with the building standards or due to other defects in materials or workmanship not regulated by building standards.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 11:12 am to Asleepinthecove
I'd look at the bill of materials during the build - if it's still available.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 12:15 pm to Baers Foot
Anything he could get from the contractor would be a bonus, although I would hesitate to use him for the tear-out and replacement. He obviously doesn’t (or didn’t) know how to build a shower. Well, to be frank, very few contractors do.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 1:28 pm to 9rocket
I would also question the new tile guy before doing anything crazy. It sounds like there was no waterproofing by the shower entrance, that doesn't necessarily mean the entire shower isn't waterproofed? Its possible they just didnt waterproof part of it is what I mean, or you added that on/ changed it up or whatever.
Tile guys are likely seeing one failed tile and going to recommend the entire thing needs replaced. You could dry that area out and replace the tile, and it may not be an issue for many more years.
Tile guys are likely seeing one failed tile and going to recommend the entire thing needs replaced. You could dry that area out and replace the tile, and it may not be an issue for many more years.
Posted on 4/20/23 at 11:58 pm to baldona
All very true. Although some tile guys will say rip it all out so they can charge the homeowner for a complete shower, some will say rip it all out so they can ensure it is built correctly. As you know, once they touch it, it’s their responsibility. I might replace a tile or two near the doorway for the OP, but that’s about it, considering the clues he has given us. No waterproofing behind the tiles they did tear out, a shower pan extending up the wall and no waterproofing there, cement board shower with no visible waterproofing. All points to no waterproofing whatsoever on the walls. I could be wrong (doubt it), but I imagine there is substantial damage behind the cement board that hasn’t become obvious yet. Just from that alone, I would have to do more investigating.
The OP can probably delay a complete re-do, but I feel it’s coming. Let’s just hope he gets a qualified, conscientious tile setter that knows how to build a shower correctly.
For 15k, he better be getting some high dollar tile in there.
The OP can probably delay a complete re-do, but I feel it’s coming. Let’s just hope he gets a qualified, conscientious tile setter that knows how to build a shower correctly.
For 15k, he better be getting some high dollar tile in there.
Posted on 4/21/23 at 4:27 pm to Asleepinthecove
quote:
using the Shluter water proofing system,
Take this for what it is worth. When I remodeled my home 12 years ago my tile guy waterproofed 2 showers with redgard, then he got sick and could not come back and finish. I hired another company and they did the master shower using Schluter.
Fast forward 10 years and I was having a gas line added under the house for a different project, my plumber showed me where the master shower was leaking and I had water puddled un in the crawlspace. The two redgard showers were fine.
My original tile guy came back and redid the master. The entire floor pan had failed.
I guess it always comes down to if the installer follows the manufacturer instructions but I would never use Schluter again.
Posted on 4/21/23 at 6:31 pm to alphaandomega
Definitely installer error. Schluter Kerdi is 100% waterproof when installed per Schluter specs. Easy Peazy. If the pan failed, he may have used the wrong drain or installed it incorrectly, or he didn’t overlap as required. Or thin set didn’t adhere properly. Far superior to rolling on two coats of redgard to the necessary thickness with no thin spots or lumps of redgard in the corners.
Have used both many times, but I don’t think I’ve used redgard since I started using Schluter about 15-16 years ago.
Have used both many times, but I don’t think I’ve used redgard since I started using Schluter about 15-16 years ago.
This post was edited on 4/21/23 at 6:33 pm
Posted on 4/21/23 at 7:29 pm to notbilly
quote:
not a lawyer: If you are in Louisiana, my opinion is the contractor unfortunately isn't liable. The new home warranty is what you need to read
Nope. Wrong answer. The New Home Warranty Act only applies the the first built construction. As I read the OP, this was a separate item of work he had done that was not part of the initial construction. As such NHWA doesn't apply
But to OP's question, 99% chance any claims against the contractor have prescribed (expired).
Posted on 4/22/23 at 10:17 am to jfw3535
quote:
Nope. Wrong answer. The New Home Warranty Act only applies the the first built construction. As I read the OP, this was a separate item of work he had done that was not part of the initial construction.
OP says The home was new and he hired the general contractor that did everything except electrical and hvac.
Posted on 4/23/23 at 3:57 pm to Asleepinthecove
The builder is free and clear at this point. He could easily argue you didn't regularly reseal the grout leading to the failure.
FYI you are going to overpay for Schluter. Newer cement board is allegedly waterproof but I still have my tile guys put a few coats of redguard on to be sure when we build out showers.
Just did two showers this way in my personal house.
FYI you are going to overpay for Schluter. Newer cement board is allegedly waterproof but I still have my tile guys put a few coats of redguard on to be sure when we build out showers.
Just did two showers this way in my personal house.
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