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re: The Ketogenic Diet 2019 and FREE Keto Coaching by OleWarSkuleAlum
Posted on 1/23/19 at 8:58 am to CoachChappy
Posted on 1/23/19 at 8:58 am to CoachChappy
What does 16/8 mean. Thanks?
1
Posted on 1/23/19 at 9:11 am to CFFO
quote:
What does 16/8 mean. Thanks?
Intermittent fasting schedule. I don't eat for 16 hours then eat all of my meals inside 8 hour window. The goal is to be able to push it down to 18:6. I'm just starting it up this week, so I can't go for 18:6 yet.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 9:20 am to CoachChappy
And this is on a keto diet? What is the benefit?
Posted on 1/23/19 at 9:22 am to CFFO
quote:Yep
And this is on a keto diet?
quote:Supposedly, all kinds of shite. Ill let OWSA explain it all, because I really don't understand it myself. I just know it works.
What is the benefit?
Posted on 1/23/19 at 1:49 pm to lsu777
quote:
really good article from Paul Carter on Keto from today on Tnation. All references are in the article.
What did this article just do?
quote:
To demonstrate this more clearly, a recent study looked at body composition changes in resistance-trained men in a caloric surplus using a ketogenic diet (compared to non-keto and a control group). The keto group lost fat but saw virtually ZERO gain in lean muscle tissue.
This kinda throws a wrench into the whole CICO deal doesn't it?
From this study...
quote:
Once energy expenditure was determined, together with their weekly training load, a moderate energy surplus was established for experimental groups, since it has been noted that trained men do not require energy increases as high as novice subjects. To guarantee a hyperenergetic condition, a daily energy intake of ˜39 kcal·kg-?1·d-?1 was used in all subjects
Keto diet was in a "hyperenergetic condition" and lost weight? What?
Oh my gosh, thank you for disproving CICO is a more elegant way than I could have ever imagined. Because, if CICO were true and calories were equal, then KD (keto), NKD (non-keto), and CG (control group) would be the same for Total Body Weight, Fat Mass, and Lean Body Mass.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 1:54 pm to CFFO
quote:
And this is on a keto diet? What is the benefit?
Yes a lot of people who do Keto do intermittent fasting. IF is not required to succeed at Keto, however it amplifies the effects.
Some of the benefits of IF are:
Regulation of Insulin
Increased HGH
Atophagy
Gene expression
Does not decrease RMR (like chronic calorie restriction does)
Muscle sparing
Reduces oxidative stress
Fights inflammation
Increases brain hormones such as BDNF
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 1:56 pm to Junky
dude i have acknowledged their is some benifit but not enough to worry about. Also acknowleged that it along with IF do a better job of burning stomach fat. Still not enough to worry about.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 2:07 pm to lsu777
It wasn't really directed at you specifically. We need to rethink the complicated nonsense of CICO if it isn't an accurate picture of what is going on.
How can they call it a hyperenerginic condition if the KD group lost weight during the trial?
This is why I abhor nutritional science - it is such BS that by trying to prove one thing, they fundamentally disprove an ideology (CICO) and not even acknowledge it.
How can they call it a hyperenerginic condition if the KD group lost weight during the trial?
This is why I abhor nutritional science - it is such BS that by trying to prove one thing, they fundamentally disprove an ideology (CICO) and not even acknowledge it.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 2:24 pm to Junky
It's not really complicated, it's just people think it's absolute just like keto nuts do, just like Paleo guys do, like vegans do and like some of the fasting guys do.
With calories it's a baseline to go off of. No way to know a specific persons metabolism or how they process certain macros. Nor is their anyway to know the Diet induced thermogensis for each person as the percentages range wildly by person and by time.
But it's a damn good starting point. I need to reread the study to intelligently discuss further with you though.
With calories it's a baseline to go off of. No way to know a specific persons metabolism or how they process certain macros. Nor is their anyway to know the Diet induced thermogensis for each person as the percentages range wildly by person and by time.
But it's a damn good starting point. I need to reread the study to intelligently discuss further with you though.
Posted on 1/23/19 at 5:26 pm to Junky
quote:
Keto diet was in a "hyperenergetic condition" and lost weight? What?
Simply put: then they, by definition, were not in a "hyperenergetic condition ". "Why is that" should be the question that we're asking. This doesn't debunk CICO, you just have to figure out why they weren't hypercaloric.
Basically what lsu777 just said.
This post was edited on 1/23/19 at 5:27 pm
Posted on 1/23/19 at 9:09 pm to Hulkklogan
Just gonna say too....one study does not prove or disprove something. For example with if, there is a new meta analysis by bdccarpenter that reviewed 12 studies on weekly restricted fasting, like 5/2 and it showed any difference was withing statistical error range. Yet Moro et Al 2016 showed better fatloss with 16/8 with macros normalized. It wasn't included in the meta analysis because it was not a continuous energy restriction rather cycled.
Couple other new studies show the same thing.
I am not sure if this study on keto is sitting similar in that it was performed under stricter circumstances and got a more realistic result or the opposite. It could be we are progressing in science or it could be some of the keto group ate proteins that have a higher DIT.
Essentially what I am saying is at this point we have an outlier not a conclusive set of studies.
Btw doctor tried to lecture me today even though everything was good because I am doing keto. Tried to tell me it was a weight gain diet only and had to be from a biological standpoint. Tried explaining that I was in a caloric deficit etc and that we would have to just agree to disagree. Also tried telling me I was not in ketosis. Finally after about 7-8 min of it had to tell him that I don't lecture him about how to be a doctor and unless he wanted me to embarrass him about his lack of knowledge he should stop. Felt bad I did it in front of his new nurse, but sometimes people just need to learn to STFU. He wasn't mad but he did stop the lecturing.
Couple other new studies show the same thing.
I am not sure if this study on keto is sitting similar in that it was performed under stricter circumstances and got a more realistic result or the opposite. It could be we are progressing in science or it could be some of the keto group ate proteins that have a higher DIT.
Essentially what I am saying is at this point we have an outlier not a conclusive set of studies.
Btw doctor tried to lecture me today even though everything was good because I am doing keto. Tried to tell me it was a weight gain diet only and had to be from a biological standpoint. Tried explaining that I was in a caloric deficit etc and that we would have to just agree to disagree. Also tried telling me I was not in ketosis. Finally after about 7-8 min of it had to tell him that I don't lecture him about how to be a doctor and unless he wanted me to embarrass him about his lack of knowledge he should stop. Felt bad I did it in front of his new nurse, but sometimes people just need to learn to STFU. He wasn't mad but he did stop the lecturing.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 5:30 am to lsu777
Don’t feel bad. Monday, an old doctor I play golf with tried to tell me to eat more whole grains. He even showed me the food pyramid and said it’s tried and tested. It’s good for you. Eating low carb is a fad and doesn’t work. He is an old man.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 5:36 am to Hulkklogan
Ughh, come on Hulk, quit being intellectually dishonest with yourself. They estimated what the subjects baseline was beforehand, and intentionally increased it above baseline. They intentionally wanted the subjects to gain weight. My point is, these guys tried to put on more weight by having subjects eat more, and the keto group lost weight. After determining their baseline "caloric" intake.
This study blows up CICO as the administrators could not accurately reproduce the model of weight loss/gain here because not all calories are equal. Protein was kept the same per kg of body weight. Calories 39 per kg of bodyweight. KD lost weight, NKD gained muscle (yes) lost fat.
quote:
Subjects were classified as active in their day-to-day lives, estimating total energy expenditure in line with the indications [22]. Once energy expenditure was determined, together with their weekly training load, a moderate energy surplus was established for experimental groups, since it has been noted that trained men do not require energy increases as high as novice subjects
This study blows up CICO as the administrators could not accurately reproduce the model of weight loss/gain here because not all calories are equal. Protein was kept the same per kg of body weight. Calories 39 per kg of bodyweight. KD lost weight, NKD gained muscle (yes) lost fat.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 5:46 am to lsu777
quote:
Btw doctor tried to lecture me today even though everything was good because I am doing keto. Tried to tell me it was a weight gain diet only and had to be from a biological standpoint. Tried explaining that I was in a caloric deficit etc and that we would have to just agree to disagree. Also tried telling me I was not in ketosis. Finally after about 7-8 min of it had to tell him that I don't lecture him about how to be a doctor and unless he wanted me to embarrass him about his lack of knowledge he should stop. Felt bad I did it in front of his new nurse, but sometimes people just need to learn to STFU. He wasn't mad but he did stop the lecturing.
My last checkup was equally hilarious. As my doc tried to tell me that eggs and cigarettes nonsense and meat to cancer BS. I bit my tongue and only mentioned that I'd be curious as what the Relative Risk as with meat to cancer as smoking and lung cancer. I knew the numbers, and he kinda stumbled as I could tell he never looked pass the face value. I then the next day proceeded to take an hour complaining to Oschner via an anonymous survey, citing evidence, as to why the World Health Organization statement is a fraud and political statement. However laid blame to the institutional lack of knowledge, not my individual doctor. Sadly I know he doesn't know any better.
Posted on 1/24/19 at 6:08 am to Junky
Most doctors and even more nurses are unhealthy and overweight where I live
Posted on 1/24/19 at 6:30 am to lsu777
Y'all need to find younger docs. My GP has recommended a lower carb diet to me several times. Paleo-ish seems to be her thoughts
Posted on 1/24/19 at 7:33 am to Azazello
quote:
Most doctors and even more nurses are unhealthy and overweight where I live
My wife works at a cardiovascular clinic. All of her doctors are in great shape and are actively studying keto and other alternative diets. It’s crazy that GPs don’t stay as up to date as specialists do.
This post was edited on 1/24/19 at 10:34 am
Posted on 1/24/19 at 7:55 am to CoachChappy
I lost 35 lbs last year. I was Keto for about 2 months, but had blood work done and the diet was reducing my renal function - My metabolic panel showed evidence of a kidney injury 
I got off keto for 2 weeks, had my blood re-tested and renal function had returned to normal.
70% of my weight loss came from an IIFYM/CICO approach, and tirelessly logging my food. I have heard/read that some people can react poorly to Keto.
I would almost recommend everyone get a full metabolic panel done prior to starting the diet, and the retest after a month or two.
I got off keto for 2 weeks, had my blood re-tested and renal function had returned to normal.
70% of my weight loss came from an IIFYM/CICO approach, and tirelessly logging my food. I have heard/read that some people can react poorly to Keto.
I would almost recommend everyone get a full metabolic panel done prior to starting the diet, and the retest after a month or two.
This post was edited on 1/24/19 at 7:58 am
Posted on 1/24/19 at 8:14 am to Brobocop
quote:
and the diet was reducing my renal function - My metabolic panel showed evidence of a kidney injury
Were you hydrating enough?
Posted on 1/24/19 at 8:16 am to Junky
quote:
next day proceeded to take an hour complaining to Oschner via an anonymous survey, citing evidence, as to why the World Health Organization statement is a fraud and political statement
Between this and your other brags, you seem just like a joy to hang out with
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