re: The Ketogenic Diet 2019 and FREE Keto Coaching by OleWarSkuleAlum

really good article from Paul Carter on Keto from today on Tnation. All references are in the article.

LINK

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Keto and Body Composition There's been some pretty solid research done on ketogenic diets versus other types of diets and how they fare at improving body composition, from both a muscle building and fat loss standpoint.

The good news for keto lovers is that keto does in fact do a slightly better job in the fat loss department, most likely due to the high degree of satiation associated with it. (You feel full on it, after a while.)

The JISSN meta-analysis that looked at the most popular diets in relation to body composition concluded that keto diets offer a slight edge in terms of fat loss when calories and protein were equated for, but only marginally so. (1) Still, every little bit helps.

The bad news for keto lovers is that when it comes to building muscle, keto falls flat on its face in comparison to diets that aren't overly carb restrictive.

To demonstrate this more clearly, a recent study looked at body composition changes in resistance-trained men in a caloric surplus using a ketogenic diet (compared to non-keto and a control group). The keto group lost fat but saw virtually ZERO gain in lean muscle tissue. (2)

Maybe the keto group actually didn't eat above maintenance level calories due to the high degree of satiation. However, even if a hypercaloric state was achieved weekly, you're still looking at a net gain of zero in terms of lean muscle mass. Turns out, you need carbs for accelerated muscle growth.

So you can't really build muscle on keto... or can you? There's something called a targeted ketogenic diet (TKD), where you spend a few weeks or even months getting your body very keto adapted, then use carbs in higher amounts during or post workout. That's when you're far more insulin sensitive and less likely to be kicked out of ketosis (it's all about the glut4 expression).

Due to the incredibly high degree of anal retentiveness on the internet, people are going to ask, "Well, how many carbs?" I can't tell you that. That's something you'd have to manipulate and test on yourself.

But I'd recommend starting at something to the tune of around 30-50 grams of carbs in the peri and post-workout window (combined carb intake here). If you're truly anal, measure your blood ketone levels before, during, and after this window to see what effect the carb intake is having on you. I know, trying stuff is hard.

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Pretty much sums up what i have been saying. The meta analysis he references does show that keto burns more fat from stubborn fat areas compared to isocaloric in a deficit. Also shows over 6 month period keto dieters tend to subconcously lower calories without the corrosponding drop in metabolic rate compared to those using an isocaloric diet.

But can't really build muscle on keto, atleast not true keto without using some form of carb cycling.

Also nothing really magical about keto from a fat burning perspective, few small advantages, but nothing beats adherence and consistancy and those on keto show roughly the same fail percentage as those on isocaloric.

It does have extreme advangtages though in the disease department. Especially if you do the diet eating whole foods from high quality sources(think whole 30 without the carbs from fruit etc).

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if you truely drink like you say, you are an alcoholic. Sure you will deny it, but you are. Maybe functioning, but still an alcoholic. Drinking everyday and binge drinking on the weekend is pretty much classic case.

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probably it never hinders work and I am usually home and in bed by 9 latest. up at 545 and work by 7.

i drink probably 2-3 days out of the week. usually socially out at dinner with friends. I am a newly single guy (out of a 3 year relationship) in Atlanta...what else is there to do?

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no offense why in the frick are you sitting around until 3 or 4 am drinking?

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cause i like to raise a little hell on the weekends with my buddies. usually got the music cranked and shooting guns. sorry for partying?

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I am a newly single guy (out of a 3 year relationship) in Atlanta...what else is there to do?

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plenty. you got pro sports and concerts everywhere. Great things to do fitness wise. Muesems. all kinds of stuff.

But here is an idea, meet a girl, mutiple girls. Date and shite.

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cause i like to raise a little hell on the weekends with my buddies. usually got the music cranked and shooting guns. sorry for partying?

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nothing when you are 18-20. You are 27, seems it would be better to go out to a dinner, maybe a few drinks at a bar and try to pick up a girl or two. Or go do something outdoors, travel, frick something.

I used to do exactly what you are talking about. We would sit on the back porch and drink and get fricked up. Its great when you are a teenager. By 27 you shouldn't be proud of being an alcoholic.

ok bud. Ive been to Iceland, Italy, and Paris in the last 3 years.

I go to braves/falcons/united games all the time. Hike local mtns as well. Its not like i just sit around getting fricked up all day. In the 4 months since my breakup ive been on 3 dates. Not sure why youre on your high horse over here.

Yea you did come off a little douchey there. I was going to just say he's 27, not 37. In a lot of big cities people party hard til 30 easy. I lived in NYC, DC and Miami in the last decade and people go hard there til 5am (NYC and Miami) and those people are successful and good looking.

Depends on where you live and what you are into.

I still party hard every once in a while at 34, but really I do it like once a month or so (really like once every quarter)

I’m almost 50. I hope I don’t outgrow wanting to hang out and drink beer w my friends.

The straight tequila part you can have

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Question. The carbmanager allows you to deduct calories and carbs if you exercise. I have chosen not to. But what is the science here? Can/should you deduct for exercise?

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I personally do not recommend that anyone deducts or adds calories based on exercise via the app. Sometimes you’ll walk 20 minutes and the app says CONGRATS you’ve burned 2000 calories! That is obviously false. I don’t trust them enough. Just start with a calorie count and stick with it. If you are losing too fast bump it up gradually. If you’re not losing enough lower the calories. Run whatever macros you decide on for Atleast 2 weeks before adjusting.

Thanks OWSA. I assumed to be safe I should not deduct. But appreciate the response. And Clint. good find.

Update: I have put away my scale. I know I am down 10-15lbs. I can see muscle starting to develop and I don't want to mind frick myself about weight. I know when I get past this phase, the weight will fall off. I plan to weigh in once or twice a month from here on out.

My keto rash is mostly cleared up. Thank God for cortisone 10.

My clothes are fitting way better. I put on a shirt I haven't worn in years, and it was hanging down to my thighs. When I was huge 4 years ago, it was at my belt line, so I stopped wearing it. I'm starting to get complements from family and friends, but I'm not going to let that go to my head. Hammer down!

My wife looks AMAZING. No, she doesn't post or read anything here.

I'm keeping up with carb manager app, but I have got the eating part down. I've switched to going 16/8. I do drink a little coffee, black. I'm feeling stronger and better.