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Testosterone-replacement therapy does not increase cardiac events in men

Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:06 am
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:06 am
so with so many on TRT here....some of us getting shite from family about it and how they think its bad for the heart....well here is the study saying its not

LINK
Posted by TigerAlum93
Member since Sep 2010
3307 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:13 am to
Very interesting, thank you for sharing.

Study was done using gel, with so many using IM for T, I would be curious as to the difference (if any) between IM and gel. Some studies suggest that IM increases HMG/HCT levels more than other methods of administration. Gel due to its nature/dosing is thought to be the most "friendly" of the routes.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:21 am to
quote:

Very interesting, thank you for sharing.

Study was done using gel, with so many using IM for T, I would be curious as to the difference (if any) between IM and gel. Some studies suggest that IM increases HMG/HCT levels more than other methods of administration. Gel due to its nature/dosing is thought to be the most "friendly" of the routes.




once serum levels are reached, shouldnt matter the method of dosing on heart health.
Posted by ronricks
Member since Mar 2021
12193 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:33 am to
So many prostate and heart myths out there regarding therapeutic dosages of testosterone. These MD's keep parroting old wives tales from 30 years ago. Therapeutic dosage of any form of testosterone is perfectly safe for 98% of male population. Heck, I'd argue a therapeutic dosage of any injectable androgen or anabolic is safe. Orals are different story.
Posted by Tiger Ryno
#WoF
Member since Feb 2007
108335 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:38 am to
So what if you lose a few years of life. It will be the shitty years at the end when your retirement runs out and you can't wipe Your arse or Remember your kids names.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 10:55 am to
quote:

So what if you lose a few years of life.


i dont think any therapeutic dose studies even show that, actually there is evidence, although very weak at this point, the HRT can extend life and certainly quality of life

quote:

Heck, I'd argue a therapeutic dosage of any injectable androgen or anabolic is safe.


19-nors can have negative effects on heart health long term if one doesnt watch it closely. but one can monitor and see how they are effected. tren in all esters abd doses should be a no go for health. I think nandrolones, bold, masteron....may be ok. even 1-test in very low doses. Primo certainly seems to be safe at lower doses.

as far as orals, some of the sides are way over blown with things like dbol, adrol and then way under played with things like var. I think with these one needs to really watch cholesterol, triglycerides etc


I personally would like to see those not making money off their body stick to low dose test, maybe low dose primo and nandrolone, and growth hormone peptides while really monitoring cholesterol, trig, blood sugar levels etc and use fodo as the main anabolic. go extreme on the food not the anabolics.


99% of people though that are normal every day family guys...could reach their goals with just lifting and eating and then trt + ghrp/ghrh combo and being patient/consistent.
Posted by Earnest_P
Member since Aug 2021
5488 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:05 am to
Have they studied how many divorces it causes?
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:08 am to
quote:

Have they studied how many divorces it causes?




prolly about as many as crossfit

honestly depends on the person and partner. if the wife is high libido...not gonna be a problem, low libido and could become an issue.

mood swings should be to the positive with males having more energy and being in a better mood due to that.
Posted by tke_swamprat
Houma, LA
Member since Aug 2004
11126 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:16 am to
Theres studies that show that cream/gels act more like your testosterone does in your late teens/early 20's with spikes and then level and on and on. Where as with injections it just stays at a flat rate if you are dosing correctly.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:22 am to
quote:

Theres studies that show that cream/gels act more like your testosterone does in your late teens/early 20's with spikes and then level and on and on. Where as with injections it just stays at a flat rate if you are dosing correctly.


literally means nothing in terms of heart health and yes they do acting differently in terms of spikes etc due to half lifes of the ester vs no ester

doesnt matter though in the long run as you are already shutting off the natural production.

we arent talking GH replacement therapy where it matters because you can still maintain natural production vs having a "gh bleed"

it literally has no effect on overall health in terms of the heart and in terms of overall side effects the faster acting the ester, the more prone you are due to fluctuations.
Posted by RocketTiger
Member since Mar 2014
1220 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:37 am to
I have clinically diagnosed low T and on TRT and my family thinks I am on anabolic steroids.
Posted by wryder1
Birmingham
Member since Feb 2008
4939 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:45 am to
quote:

we arent talking GH replacement therapy where it matters because you can still maintain natural production vs having a "gh bleed"


What are you doing that allows natural testosterone to still be made? I am having to look in to this and that’s my biggest concern.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:56 am to
quote:

What are you doing that allows natural testosterone to still be made? I am having to look in to this and that’s my biggest concern.


nothing, cant do anything about it. if you take test or any anabolic in any form, you will shut down natural production


i was speaking of growth hormone and use of ghrh+ghrp combo


if you are going ot get on trt due to low levels naturally its a life long decision. one you should wait to make until after kids if at all possible. its not a get on and get off type thing.
Posted by Loup
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
16973 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

honestly depends on the person and partner. if the wife is high libido...not gonna be a problem, low libido and could become an issue.


Yup, thank God my wife is high libido. I'd be screwing cracks in the concrete if she wasn't.

quote:

mood swings should be to the positive with males having more energy and being in a better mood due to that.



I'd imagine that any potential negative side effects from TRT that I could have are outweighed by me being 2 or 3 times more active now than I was before. I went from dragging my arse to the gym 3x a week to running in the morning, gym at lunch, biking in the evening, and hiking on the weekends. I'm not stop. I feel great so I'm not a grouch all the time, either.

The guys I work out with have started calling me GMO. In 12 months I went from barely looking like I went to the gym to having capped delts.
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 12:55 pm
Posted by wryder1
Birmingham
Member since Feb 2008
4939 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:54 pm to
How does Clomid compare to TRT?
Posted by LEASTBAY
Member since Aug 2007
16558 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 12:55 pm to
It's not the high libido likely causing divorce. I feel like it makes you talk back to your wife much easier.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 1:03 pm to
quote:

It's not the high libido likely causing divorce. I feel like it makes you talk back to your wife much easier.


what???
Posted by tke_swamprat
Houma, LA
Member since Aug 2004
11126 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 1:05 pm to
I'm aware. I was replying to someone else just reporting another difference between the mode of treatment.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
38031 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

How does Clomid compare to TRT?


two different things that come with there own set of side effects

clomid is a class of drugs called selective estrogen receptor modulators...serms for short. in short serms lock on to the estrogen receptor not allowing estrogen to attach...your body detects the floating estrogen as excess and raises testosterone production to try and match the estrogen.

clomid isnt going to get you much higher than you already are unless you have an underlying issues than a serm can jumpstart

example for me, I was on high dosed clomid and really high dosed hcg for a year...i went from levels around 335 up to around 470 for that year...when I came off after getting wife pregnant, my levels plummeted to around 75-80 and couldn't get them up.

TRT is complete replacement where a serm is trying to restart natural production. I will say clomid has sides, emotional/mental sides.

what are you trying to accomplish? what are your current levels? do you currently workout and what is your bodyfat % and are you dont having kids? what is your age, have you consulted with a doctor yet?
Posted by Loup
Ferriday
Member since Apr 2019
16973 posts
Posted on 9/13/23 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

I feel like it makes you talk back to your wife much easier.


100% true. I used to just let a lot of petty stuff slide (like her piling boxes on top of the trash can and such) because I didn't think it was worth getting her in a bad mood over it. It doesn't happen anymore. I call it out right away.
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