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Started By
Message
re: On Mounjaro for two months, my take - 7 month update
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:07 pm to LSUfan4444
Posted on 7/6/24 at 11:07 pm to LSUfan4444
quote:
But I also acknowledge that at this moment there are more cost effective ways to treat obesity without diabetes than GLP antagonists.
Please elaborate on this. Here is the catch. Only include proven and effective methods of treatment that are sustainable for the majority of patients.
And just to recap, diabetes is caused by obesity. And your data excludes the cost of treating diabetes. Yet the argument is made that the cost of treating the disease of obesity is greater than the cost of not treating the disease. But, again, you aren’t going to include probably the biggest cost that is caused by obesity(diabetes). You have to see how ridiculous that is.
Even your calling it “diabetes medicine” shows a lack of understanding. Do you still call Viagra a high blood pressure medicine? Or do you call it ED medicine or boner pills? Same exact medicine, but the later application proved far more meaningful than the original intended use. Cmon man. Take a step back and really look at this.
I’m happy to acknowledge that the current cost of effectively treating obesity with OBESITY MEDICINE is very expensive. I am willing to acknowledge that the cost of treating obesity with OBESITY MEDICINE is not going to be in the green in the Y1, per individual, the majority of the time. However, projected over a patient’s lifespan? Not even close. The amount of savings from not having to treat diabetes, heart disease, ortho, neuro, psych, kidney, liver, etc is so far in the green it’s not even funny. Just be honest and admit it is all about profits this quarter and this year for the insurance company.
The problem is that it is hard to measure something that doesn’t exist because it was mitigated preemptively. That does not mean the savings aren’t real. Not having to remove a diabetic’s foot due to infection is real savings. Avoiding dialysis is a real savings. Hospital stay after cardiac event costs real money. I could go on forever.
It’s pointless to continue, as you will not see things any differently than from a business only insurance perspective. And that’s fine. It’s the system we have, and for it to work the insurance companies have to keep stacking record profits on top of record profits. I do understand how business works.
But don’t act like that aint what it is man.
1
Posted on 7/7/24 at 8:17 am to BawtHouse
Bawthouse has not shown one shred of good evidence in 15000 circular words. It’s feelings and “I have convincing evidence not available to the public” (but somehow also not in the industry). At least one of those things aren’t true, and I suspect both (mainly the quality of the evidence). Science doesn’t care about your feelings, you need evidence. It’s simple.
I’d love for GLP-1 to be a cost effective solution to improve outcomes, but they have not proven to be at this point at the current prices.
And this is complete bullshite:
You just compare glp1 to placebo and measure outcomes like a million other clinical trials that have been done.
I’d love for GLP-1 to be a cost effective solution to improve outcomes, but they have not proven to be at this point at the current prices.
And this is complete bullshite:
quote:
The problem is that it is hard to measure something that doesn’t exist because it was mitigated preemptively.
You just compare glp1 to placebo and measure outcomes like a million other clinical trials that have been done.
This post was edited on 7/7/24 at 8:23 am
Posted on 7/7/24 at 8:54 am to NewOrleansBlend
quote:
You just compare glp1 to placebo and measure outcomes like a million other clinical trials that have been done.
As stated, there are many active studies. They take time to hold significance. You should understand that. Some of these studies will take as long as 20-30 years to complete.
quote:
It’s feelings
Wrong.
Continuing to ignore that the insurance data sets exclude diabetes is pretty funny. Also that data is not accounting for savings on future disease not being treated because those costs have not hit the balance sheet yet and never will. It’s really not that complicated to understand this. There is an inherent issue quantifying that, and I have acknowledged that. But that doesn’t mean it’s not real. It’s very real.
You and 444 haven’t presented one shred of evidence, but I am smart enough to know that the insurance data sets are what they are claimed to be. But they are framed/manipulated to meet a certain end. It’s all about profits and fighting policy change to not include coverage. I get it. Business. Doesn’t mean it is right or what is best for patients.
I personally don’t have to prove shite to you or anyone else. I’ve chosen to give some of my time to inform people on a subject that many do not understand. Yes, I have access to information from the very cutting edge research in obesity medicine. That doesn’t mean I can force studies to conclude sooner than planned so you can have your evidence buddy.
Until you address the bullshite of excluding diabetes and acknowledging the savings that are also excluded from your equation due to unrealized cost never hitting the balance sheet, there is nothing more to discuss. Big insurance gonna big insurance!
Posted on 7/7/24 at 9:07 am to BawtHouse
quote:
You and 444 haven’t presented one shred of evidence
Stop lying. From my earlier post:
quote:
A recent study in patients with a preexisting history of heart disease, a population at a much higher risk for a future event than a population of obese nondiabetic patients, showed that GLP-1’s reduced events by 0.75% a year. So, it would require treating over 130 high risk patients for a year to prevent one event at a cost of $1.6 million. For obese patients that price would be much higher. There are better ways to spend that money.
quote:
The claim that obesity is caused by low GLP-1 levels is not true. Some studies show a correlation, but that absolutely does not show causation. Obesity itself likely causes low GLP-1 levels not vice versa given the fact that the prevalence of obesity has exploded, which you would not expect if it was caused by a chemical imbalance (you would expect the rate to be fairly constant). Also, there is a study in obese kids that show increased glp-1 levels in obese kids compared to non-obese.
Posted on 7/7/24 at 9:18 am to NewOrleansBlend
Nothing more to discuss until you address the manipulated data. Excluding diseases known to be caused by obesity. I’m done. You won’t because you can’t. The research community is driven by different motives than your business is.
The insurance industry is like 6-7 times larger than the pharmaceutical industry. Big big business and a whole lot done to protect profits. This is just one example guys.
We’ve hijacked the thread for long enough. I’ll check out. Keep quoting manipulated data. I have faith that everyone will see through the BS like excluding diabetes(you admit this) from the data smh.
The insurance industry is like 6-7 times larger than the pharmaceutical industry. Big big business and a whole lot done to protect profits. This is just one example guys.
We’ve hijacked the thread for long enough. I’ll check out. Keep quoting manipulated data. I have faith that everyone will see through the BS like excluding diabetes(you admit this) from the data smh.
This post was edited on 7/7/24 at 9:42 am
Posted on 7/7/24 at 12:24 pm to NewOrleansBlend
At this point I think he’s just initially trying to be obtuse. He said he was done like 4 different times but is uncontrollably drawn to not only telling you how wrong you are but trying to prove he’s the smartest one in the chat, he knows more than you, actuaries are wrong, he knows his industry, he knows my industry better than me, he knows your industry better than you, he can predict the future and if you can’t then you lack common sense even when current data suggest his predictions are false, he knows my interest in improving outcomes at a lower cost is only one on a professional level. There is literally nothing the man doesn’t know more about than anyone else in this topic.
Posted on 7/7/24 at 3:53 pm to theantiquetiger
Man, this stuff is really unbelievable. A1c at its highest was 10.9, with average glucose at 266. Started working hard to fix that prior to even taking Mounjaro. Got the A1c down to 7 on my own. Started taking Mounjaro 1.5 years ago.
When i started out, I went on a crash diet. Cut out carbs damn near completely. Strength trained 5-6 days a week. Dropped weight like a mother fricker due to this and the mounjaro. A1c next check was 4.9 with average of 90.
Loosened up eating habits a little. Would have rice, and other carbs on a limited basis. Would have potato chips from time to time, even the occasional donut or ice cream. Took a blood test Friday fully expecting those numbers to be higher.
Fast forward to Friday. A1c is now 4.7 and daily number is 88.
Unreal
When i started out, I went on a crash diet. Cut out carbs damn near completely. Strength trained 5-6 days a week. Dropped weight like a mother fricker due to this and the mounjaro. A1c next check was 4.9 with average of 90.
Loosened up eating habits a little. Would have rice, and other carbs on a limited basis. Would have potato chips from time to time, even the occasional donut or ice cream. Took a blood test Friday fully expecting those numbers to be higher.
Fast forward to Friday. A1c is now 4.7 and daily number is 88.
Unreal
Posted on 7/7/24 at 6:17 pm to TheBob
Great work. You did it right!
Posted on 7/7/24 at 6:51 pm to TheBob
You are doing it right my friend. Gym hard.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:28 am to LSUfan4444
im in the middle ground here. personal opinion is none of this should be covered by insurance. as i have said before, i do not think its a disease
but i also do think, future cost would come down over time and be worth it
i also think there should be a middle ground of...if i wanna pay cash, will be this much vs insurance
i will say the boutique shops selling this are ripping people off big time.
but i also do think, future cost would come down over time and be worth it
i also think there should be a middle ground of...if i wanna pay cash, will be this much vs insurance
i will say the boutique shops selling this are ripping people off big time.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 7:05 am to theantiquetiger
Seven month update.
Still on the weekly shot, 10mg. Lost a total of around 55 lbs. I plateaued out around 210 for the last 3 months.
Been off Metformin now for 5+ months. My last two A1c checks were 5.7. The doctor cut all my other meds in half and still plan taking me off them in two months.
My blood pressure averages around 115/85 (down from 145/95 six months ago).
Still on the weekly shot, 10mg. Lost a total of around 55 lbs. I plateaued out around 210 for the last 3 months.
Been off Metformin now for 5+ months. My last two A1c checks were 5.7. The doctor cut all my other meds in half and still plan taking me off them in two months.
My blood pressure averages around 115/85 (down from 145/95 six months ago).
Posted on 9/25/24 at 7:08 am to theantiquetiger
That’s awesome man. How much more do you want to lose?
Posted on 9/25/24 at 8:05 am to Uncle JackD
quote:
That’s awesome man. How much more do you want to lose?
Trying to get to 200
Posted on 9/27/24 at 2:54 pm to lsu777
quote:
im in the middle ground here. personal opinion is none of this should be covered by insurance. as i have said before, i do not think its a disease
100%.
Posted on 9/30/24 at 11:36 am to ronricks
quote:For these people, the future MIGHT be troubled, but the status quo IS terrible.
You can say these cases are 'rare' but these drugs are becoming more and more popular for weight loss so what happens in the future? I guess time will tell?
Posted on 10/1/24 at 7:07 am to theantiquetiger
What is your exercise routine, Antique?
Posted on 10/6/24 at 1:15 pm to TDFreak
Hey , as far as terazepatide ( sp ) goes, is there a compounding pharmacy you recommend? What is a fair price for the minimal dosage ? And are there any that have a pen instead of a needle?
Posted on 10/6/24 at 2:23 pm to Lsupimp
quote:I’m pretty sure as of last week, compounding will not be an option since tirz was taken off the medication shortage list. Plus most of those will price gouge bigly. I’d use a Chinese peptide source. You can buy a kit of 10 vials for less than $300, prices have plummeted the past few months.. That’ll last you a long time (approximately 3-6 months) depending on dosage. My advice is to go check out meso forum and look under steroid underground. They post prices and contact info there.
there a compounding pharmacy you recommend?
The only way to get the auto inject version is to go the prescription route and get Mounjaro or zepbound.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 3:01 pm to Uncle JackD
Thanks . What’s the cost of Zepbound these days?
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 10/6/24 at 3:05 pm to Lsupimp
$1000/month unless your insurance provider covers obesity meds. You’d have to check your formulary.
Well I take that back. Eli Lilly had announced they would be selling vials vs pens recently and the price was way less. I wanna say 400 or so but don’t quote me on price.
Either way, I’ve done both, and china peps are just as effective. Just make sure you get a tested source. Most are testing 98-99% purity, same as pharmacy grade.
Well I take that back. Eli Lilly had announced they would be selling vials vs pens recently and the price was way less. I wanna say 400 or so but don’t quote me on price.
Either way, I’ve done both, and china peps are just as effective. Just make sure you get a tested source. Most are testing 98-99% purity, same as pharmacy grade.
This post was edited on 10/6/24 at 3:08 pm
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