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re: Interview with Dr. David Ludwig, Author of Largest Low Carb Study to Date

Posted on 2/26/19 at 10:49 am to
Posted by Junky
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2005
8373 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 10:49 am to
quote:

This will never happen. Eating shitty, cheap food is too easy especially for poor/stupid people. Just look at the grocery basket of a fat poor person. Almost all of it comes in a box. It's disgusting.


Posted by TnMountaineer
Minglewood
Member since Aug 2018
3490 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 10:49 am to
Chappy is correct. I cringe at the grocery store at some folk. The guy in front of me the other day had twelve Pepsi’s and Mountain Dew’s in his cart. Not to mention all the cookies and other processed foods in his cart.

Is it ignorance or apathy?
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31034 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 10:51 am to
i was too. i just hate when people start pretending like keto is some magical pill. Its not, its all about compliance no matter how you slice it. Just gets old, especially people using opinions as fact.

my personal opinion is as a general non training population nobody should have more than 100g carbs daily. There is no use for them and its easy to control calories.

also beleive general population should only have 2 meals daily.

meat should be the center piece with green veggies as the main side in any diet for the general population.

I believe our RDA for protein is way too low, mainly because of the Diet induced thermogenises

i believe in many of the concepts of the vertical diet. Gut health first, macros second. Walk 10 min before and after meals.

i also beleive the general population should put their fork down after each bite, chew 25 times minimum on each bite, wipe their mouth between bites and take a sip of water. doing so slows the time it takes to eat leading to less consumption overall

i beleive the general population should not eat processed anything except for 1 meal a week. all restraunt meals should be split between couples.

none of the above items, except for the chewing part, have a direct effect on fat loss in the gerenal population. all have been proven to have corolation effects, just like keto. Yet i dont claim any of them to be science based and 100% infallable. why do keto zeolots?

again this is coming from somebody that uses the keto diet to cut and lower carb intake to control calorie consumption so i am not a keto hater.
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32534 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 11:09 am to
quote:

Is it ignorance or apathy?

For me, it was a lot of ignorance mixed with some apathy.

I knew certain foods were bad for me, but I didn't want to give them up. frick I love mac and cheese. However, think of how dumb the average person is, then realize 1/2 the population id dumber than that.

I have a master's degree in Ed, but didn't know how bad processed foods are for you. I think we are all learning how bad it is. There are people out there that believe that store's will not sell them food that is bad for them.

The other side of this crisis is. We need processed foods to feed out population. Ancients figured out that they needed bread to fill bellies. This is our new bread. We need to clean up our diets as a society. Look at a school lunch meal. It's almost all carbs. This is even after "Michelle Obama cleaned it up."
Posted by Hulkklogan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2010
43299 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 11:11 am to
quote:

Is it ignorance or apathy?



A mix of both.

I grew up obese. My family bought nothing but bullshite food and we ate out a lot. I had no idea what 'healthy' looked like when I started losing weight back in 2011. Nutrition wasn't a thought. Before I started keto, I started eating Campbell's Chunky Soups for lunch and dinner thinking it was healthy, or at least healthier than what I'd typically eat. I had no idea. I took the time over years and years to learn. But most people won't do that. You're lucky if gen pop decides to look at the government's food pyramid. It mostly comes to what is cheapest, tastes best, most convenient, or a crossroad between the three.

It's the same ideology that drives insane yoyo diets. People want the fastest results but then don't do anything to sustain their results because it takes work each and every day to keep your caloric intake in check in such an obesogenic environment.
This post was edited on 2/26/19 at 11:15 am
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31034 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 11:32 am to
both you and chappy hitting the nail on the head. I grew up in a traditional cajun family and we ate rice and gravy at a mimimum of twice weekly, fried foods at least once a week an dsome kind of pasta dish once a week. I ate the hell out of it, eating more than the rest of the family combined, yet i was rail thin. Because i had to eat that much just to stay at maintenance(im talking 4k plus easily a day, usually over 5k) and i unbeknowest to me was practicing Intermittent fasting as i have always disliked breakfast.

not until i started eating a whole jar of peanut butter with syrup and 100g protein shake before bed did i finally gain weight.

my point is, like hulk said, diet plays a very small part in overall health for most people. non exercise physical activity plays a much larger roll and until we figure out a way to drastically increase that, obesity will continue to be an issue.
Posted by pressurized
Member since Aug 2013
590 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 11:44 am to
Y'all seem focused on the weight loss/caloric reduction aspect of diet. I'm more curious about the science/biology of diets.

While many do keto/low carb for weight loss, I'm specifically interested in the metabolic changes in the body. As we all know, being in ketosis means running your body on an entirely different fuel source than the S.A.D.. That's kind of a big deal, but is it for the better or worse?

While exercise can help with insulin sensitivity, most people don't exercise adequately and individual insulin sensitivities vary (interesting anthropological theory suggests it's based on ancestral geography dictating diet).

There seems to be numerous benefits of reducing an insulin response to regulate blood sugar and therefore the adrenal processes. Not to mention the studies that show improvement in diabetes, epilepsy, inflammation, etc..

It's very sad that in 2019, we don't know more about human nutrition. I just recently started taking my health seriously after 34 years of sheer ignorance, and the keto diet has been life changing. I try to learn more about keto and even strive to read different diet philosophies, but we all know the general population is doomed.

While I know I feel better on a keto diet, I'm open minded to discussion on health. I don't know if keto is sustainable long term, but based on the way I feel I see no reason to stop it and will continue to follow the science where it takes me.

I look at the rising popularity of a low carb diet as a good thing, as maybe it will get more and more people aware of the science of diet.
Posted by FWGolfer
Member since Oct 2017
87 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 1:10 pm to
I know I feel better on the keto diet plan. I am reducing caloric intake, but I'm never hungry and have no crazy cravings. With a keto friendly diet I struggle to eat 1600 calories, but feel great. And that is with resistance training and cardio 5-6 days a week.

My blood pressure has gone from 134/93 average to now averaging 118/79. I have never been obese in my life and have lived an active lifestyle for the most part.

Wouldn't consider myself a keto zealot, but it works for me.
Posted by lsupride87
Member since Dec 2007
95046 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 1:50 pm to
Low Carb had me looking good and feeling good


But my LDL got high as frick doing it

My HDL remained High and my Triclycerides remained low, but my LDL, including LDL Particle number was high. Now, in saying that, I still had a low small particle count and was pattern A which was good


I stopped low carb and went to sensible eating where I ate fruits and veggies and just generally healthy, and the ldl dropped


So what does my anecdotal evidence say? People are different hell I dont know
Posted by Adam4848
LA
Member since Apr 2006
18955 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

i was too. i just hate when people start pretending like keto is some magical pill. Its not, its all about compliance no matter how you slice it. Just gets old, especially people using opinions as fact.




quote:

my personal opinion is as a general non training population nobody should have more than 100g carbs daily. There is no use for them and its easy to control calories.


As someone who actually eats carbs I've come to find this true very true. When I'm only at the office or at home there's no reason for me to eat any besides vegetables or what I get from giant salads.

But carbs have their place and when lifting heavy I notice a huge difference in my recovery as well as glycogen stores when I limit them completely.

So I carb cycle. I like that it limits me on my rest days but allows me to treat myself in a sense without actually "cheating" macros wise after the gym.

You and others in this thread have made some good points.
This post was edited on 2/26/19 at 2:19 pm
Posted by CoachChappy
Member since May 2013
32534 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 3:43 pm to
quote:


So what does my anecdotal evidence say? People are different hell I dont know


Your anecdotal evidence says what actual experts say which is everyone is different. In the very near future, they will be able to genetically build individualized diets. You have these genetic markers- eat like this and be healthy
Posted by Yak
DuPage County
Member since May 2014
4672 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 4:18 pm to
All I know is, if I had to get rid of rice or oatmeal and sweet cream for my coffee, I'd most likely have one or two assault charges on my record
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31034 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 5:53 pm to
quote:

Low Carb had me looking good and feeling good But my LDL got high as frick doing it My HDL remained High and my Triclycerides remained low, but my LDL, including LDL Particle number was high. Now, in saying that, I still had a low small particle count and was pattern A which was good I stopped low carb and went to sensible eating where I ate fruits and veggies and just generally healthy, and the ldl dropped So what does my anecdotal evidence say? People are different hell I dont know


your evidence says exactly what almost all of the science says, overall that the loosing of weight generally is the biggest driver of the health markes and that eating nutrient rich whole food is actually
good for you.
quote:

I know I feel better on the keto diet plan. I am reducing caloric intake, but I'm never hungry and have no crazy cravings. With a keto friendly diet I struggle to eat 1600 calories, but feel great. And that is with resistance training and cardio 5-6 days a week.

My blood pressure has gone from 134/93 average to now averaging 118/79. I have never been obese in my life and have lived an active lifestyle for the most part.

Wouldn't consider myself a keto zealot, but it works for me.



it was dieting in general that has you feeling better and eating foods with better micronutrients. But if ketp is making you feel that away and you can stay compliant then that is what you should be doing. that is all this is about.
Posted by FWGolfer
Member since Oct 2017
87 posts
Posted on 2/26/19 at 8:36 pm to
That is why I put the caveat at the end that it works for me. It might not be for everyone, and that's ok. No one likes the person that this is the only way. I'm just happy with my life and like sharing, but don't want to push that everyone should do what I'm doing.
Posted by Big_Slim
Mogadishu
Member since Apr 2016
3977 posts
Posted on 2/27/19 at 7:57 pm to


Is average carb intake and overall obesity rate really the best way to look at that data? Seems like it would have some glaring problems if those rates were not taken together as a single data point per individual.
Posted by StraightCashHomey21
Aberdeen,NC
Member since Jul 2009
125398 posts
Posted on 2/27/19 at 8:00 pm to
Not all carbs are created equal but the keto crowd sticks their head in the sand when that is brought up.

Carbs from whole food is not the same as the processed garbage that is killing Americans
This post was edited on 2/27/19 at 8:00 pm
Posted by Hulkklogan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Oct 2010
43299 posts
Posted on 2/27/19 at 8:15 pm to
No it's not. It's a small counterpoint to low carb zealotry, but still not a great one because of just how much carbs were still being eaten.

I was trolling
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
31484 posts
Posted on 2/28/19 at 12:34 pm to
quote:

so he shits on science good to know. 


Ludwig is literally the LAST person I would think of as someone who would ever "shite on science." do your homework before spouting dogma, as you always accuse others of failing to do/doing.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31034 posts
Posted on 2/28/19 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

spouting dogma


So the has mutiple studies to back hours claim? Hell more than 1 is all like asking for.

Or are the studies on keto kind of like socialism in that according to the zeolots for either, it wasn't done correctly?

Bottom line is ludwig made a claim as a fact that simply isn't supported by any evidence and actually goes against what the evidence is telling us. That is shitting on science.
Posted by LSUTiger1026
Member since Sep 2017
146 posts
Posted on 2/28/19 at 1:40 pm to
You should really listen to his interview on the Diet Doctor podcast. I think your opinion on him will change. He specifically states that this study cannot by itself prove or disprove a theory and that the results need to be replicated. He also stated that calories matter and not everyone benefited from eating low carb in the interview. Those that are already metabolically flexible and aren’t insulin resistant did not benefit nearly as much as those that were insulin resistant.
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