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Message
re: Hubermans guest today is Dr. Christopher Gardner
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:45 am to ronricks
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:45 am to ronricks
quote:
No, I’m not
You said "cardiovascular and metabolic health." I provided a link addressing that. Then you said, "no not that, colorectal cancer!" That's literally moving the goal post.
And the study I linked with the connection between dietary fiber intake and colorectal cancer is from 2023, so it's by no means an outdated claim.
Your anecdotal evidence of "I feel fine and eat red meat" is by no means empirical evidence that passes the science test. You can go on living that way, but communicating with authority that your personal views are correct and rigorously tested and studied claims are erroneous is deterimental to society. We have not built Western civilization on random jackholes arguing based on what they feel is correct. That's a manifestation of selfishness, and as a society, selfishness is regressive.
1
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:47 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
So it’s not that the studies are flawed, it’s just that they provide very little value. Got it.
studies on mice are almost useless except to give you ideas to study further
the studies arent flawed usually. its that people read the conclusion and think...oh well that it without understand the data and the process
that includes you
quote:
I don’t know to state it anymore clearly, I understand it’s completely anecdotal. But the anecdotes are very real and very compelling. And we ultimately know very little about health span so we should investigate why those anecdotes are happening. Could be nothing, could be something amazing, you, I, or anyone have no clue. Which was the entire premise of my first post, 777 comes in here and speaks definitely on every topic like it’s settled fact, which has multiple flaws.
i didnt say it was settled fact on if it helps auto immune but carnivore doesnt show any specific causation effects over other elimination diets
also i can speak with 10000% certainty when it comes to body fat loss, there is no advantage of any diet over another once calories and protein are equated. we have 2 or 3 dozen studies and at least half a dozen meta analysis that show this.
but you are not capable of reading studies or a Meta, digesting it and regurgitating it in a clear and concise manner so you choice to resort to attacks
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:51 am to lsu777
quote:
you weigh 155 lbs at 15% bodyfat according to previous post
Wrong again
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:56 am to lsu777
quote:
also i can speak with 10000% certainty when it comes to body fat loss, there is no advantage of any diet over another once calories and protein are equated
Cool, that’s not what we’re talking about
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:58 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Wrong again
what up to 160 now?
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:58 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Cool, that’s not what we’re talking about
umm pretty damn established than over 95%+ of the health benefits of any diet comes from the fat loss and the caloric deficit.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 9:59 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
So it’s not that the studies are flawed, it’s just that they provide very little value. Got it.
No, it is because layperson readers ascribe teleological appeals to scientific studies. Their epistemic value is in their contribution to ongoing scholarly conversations about a niche topic. Start here if you're interested in learning more.
quote:
But the anecdotes are very real and very compelling. And we ultimately know very little about health span so we should investigate why those anecdotes are happening.
Many of the anecdotes in this thread are happening in a very short and immediate time frame. When speaking of healthspan optimization, we don't mean "how do you feel over the last few months or even a few years of eating only beef." The goal is to understand longitudinally what factors are associated with diminished rates of various diseases and conditions that impact our health.
And we do have studies that identify correlations and mechanisms for fiber's role in reducing cancer rates and improving metabolic health. See here.
I personally agree with you that there seems to be a connection between genetics and optimal diets. However, that seems to be in identifying what types of foods work best for consuming the recommended and necessary macro and micro nutrients. So for example, perhaps someone from a Nordic environment functions best with fish-based proteins and someone from an inland area functions best with beef. In the context of the claims in this thread, however, protein itself is still a necessary nutrient and we can identify through scientific study how much each person needs. I don't think we're going to see that someone from one country needs 50g of protein and someone from another needs 150g.
But again, we shouldn't be making claims as if that were fact just because we feel that way. If you're passionate about it, become a scientist and test it. If not, make sure you're not being definitive like some of those here. That's the big difference and why it's dangerous for these extremist messages to perpetuate online. Even from someone like Dr. Gardner who could be argued as having an agenda outside the scope of his scientific findings. It's just dubious and I am skeptical to the point that I don't even want to consider his claims.
This post was edited on 5/14/25 at 10:01 am
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:01 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
I provided a link addressing that.
And said link also mentioned Colorectal cancer of which there are ZERO studies proving such its all hypothesis. So, I responded to that. Read that very carefully.
You still haven't given me a single benefit that I will receive if I stop my current diet and start ingesting 30 grams of fiber a day. These aren't my personal views as its estimated that hundreds of thousand of Americans are on carnivore based diets. What are all these people missing out on? Are they going to get cancer? Inflammation? Not be able to have normal bowel movements?
I'm not even saying carnivore is the best diet there are several elimination diets that one can trial and settle on that is best for them. All I am saying is the SAD has made people think you need fiber in your diet to function normally and we know that is 100% bullshite. I and hundreds of thousands of others don't get any fiber and we don't have cancer, have very little to no inflammation and have normal bowel movements. Why? Because we aren't ingesting a bunch of fake processed foods that cause all these issues in the first place. Its a very simple premise. Avoid unhealthy eating habits and you won't need to eat fiber or take fiber supplements to be normal. I'm not missing out on a thing.
This post was edited on 5/14/25 at 10:04 am
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:09 am to StringedInstruments
i prolly agree on the different diets for different genetics but for 99% of people none of that shite matters. majoring in the minors worrying about that kind of stuff.
could it make you 0.01% healthier...maybe but at what cost to lifestyle and does it raise stress over having to eat that away that negates any benefit
and look 90% of this country just needs to focus on hitting macros as that would get them 90% to their goals.
could it make you 0.01% healthier...maybe but at what cost to lifestyle and does it raise stress over having to eat that away that negates any benefit
and look 90% of this country just needs to focus on hitting macros as that would get them 90% to their goals.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:10 am to ronricks
quote:
And said link also mentioned Colorectal cancer of which there are ZERO studies proving such its all hypothesis.
That's not true.
quote:
You still haven't given me a single benefit that I will receive if I stop my current diet and start ingesting 30 grams of fiber a day. These aren't my personal views as its estimated that hundreds of thousand of Americans are on carnivore based diets. What are all these people missing out on? Are they going to get cancer? Inflammation? Not be able to have normal bowel movements?
The carnivore and keto diets have increased substantially over the last decade. Guess what else has increased substantially over the last decade? Colorectal cancer. Now, perhaps there are no current studies showing how these two are linked (though with previous studies that do associate low-fiber diets with colorectal cancer, we can hypothesize that this is the reason for the increase in cancer rates). However, if we're going with anecdotal evidence and non-rigorous associations between two data points, then perhaps we can make the claim that our need fixation with low-fiber, high-protein diets is leading to increased rates of cancer.
You will probably say, "BUT THAT DOESN'T PROVE IT!" And you would be correct. However, with the scientific literature we have available, we can absolutely claim that you have a higher likelihood of healthspan and lifespan longevity if you increase your fiber intake to at least 30g/day. You can sit on the pot and poop with a smile on your face every day right now if you want; but in the long run, you are in the test group that is hypothesized to get cancer based on what we know about diet.
That seems like an important single benefit to me.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:18 am to ronricks
quote:
we know that is 100% bullshite.
Go on. How do we know this? Show your work
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:27 am to lsu777
quote:
i prolly agree on the different diets for different genetics but for 99% of people none of that shite matters. majoring in the minors worrying about that kind of stuff. could it make you 0.01% healthier...maybe but at what cost to lifestyle and does it raise stress over having to eat that away that negates any benefit and look 90% of this country just needs to focus on hitting macros as that would get them 90% to their goals.
Absolutely agree. Hell, 90% of the country is metabolically unhealthy based on the following requirements (for men):
Waist circumference < 40”. FORTY. INCHES.
Fasting glucose < 100 mg/dl
Hemoglobin A1c < 5.7% (this level is pretty much T2D)
Blood pressure < 120/80
Triglycerides < 150 mg/dl
HDL > 40
Kinda makes us look stupid arguing over this shite when 90% of the country is barely alive
This post was edited on 5/14/25 at 10:28 am
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:45 am to Not Cooper
quote:
Waist circumference < 40”. FORTY. INCHES.
bruh, that's morbidly obese.
Posted on 5/14/25 at 10:57 am to lsu777
quote:
i prolly agree on the different diets for different genetics but for 99% of people none of that shite matters
It matters for 100% of people
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:09 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
It matters for 100% of people
yea the guy that is 30-40 lbs over weight who hasnt exercised in 10+ years really needs to worry about which diet is best for his genetics
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:17 am to lsu777
quote:
yea the guy that is 30-40 lbs over weight who hasnt exercised in 10+ years really needs to worry about which diet is best for his genetics
Damn dude, you have one thick skull
Posted on 5/14/25 at 11:29 am to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
Damn dude, you have one thick skull
:rotflmao:Posted on 5/14/25 at 12:01 pm to cajuns td
quote:
Go on. How do we know this? Show your work
You think the SAD is healthy? Doesn't cause obesity, diabetes, and all these other health problems people have now? The SAD is keeping pharmaceutical companies in business and making record profits
Posted on 5/14/25 at 12:05 pm to StringedInstruments
quote:
Guess what else has increased substantially over the last decade? Colorectal cancer.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with things like plastics, highly processed foods, fast food, artificial ingredients/flavorings/sweeteners/preservatives of all different sorts, seed oils, and all kinds of other stuff that becomes more and more common by the year. Nope, its meat eaters causing it. Wonder what the colorectal cancer rates were 1,000 years ago when all that stuff didn't exist? Cancer diagnosis has been skyrocketing since the 1970's.
This post was edited on 5/14/25 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 5/14/25 at 12:06 pm to ronricks
quote:
You think the SAD is healthy? Doesn't cause obesity, diabetes, and all these other health problems people have now? The SAD is keeping pharmaceutical companies in business and making record profits
You don't need to create a straw man. Just tell me how you developed the opinion that the evidence for fiber consumption is BS
This post was edited on 5/14/25 at 12:08 pm
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