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re: Are MMO's dying?
Posted on 8/1/18 at 7:53 pm to SBvital
Posted on 8/1/18 at 7:53 pm to SBvital
quote:We are, but judging by Saurfang's displeasure with literally anything going on right now, I'd imagine we're going to have some spicy interactions about Darkshore in the final release before launch. I could very easily see a lot of finger-pointing going on at Sylvanas as soon as the Alliance marches on their turf.
I mean aren't we done in Darkshore/Teldrassil? From what I understand the focus is going to be towards Lordaeron next week, no?
This post was edited on 8/1/18 at 8:16 pm
1
Posted on 8/1/18 at 9:56 pm to Drewbie
SPOILERS
I hope yall know Saurfang ends up in the Stockades in the actual expansion.
I hope yall know Saurfang ends up in the Stockades in the actual expansion.
Posted on 8/1/18 at 11:26 pm to 50_Tiger
The only solution is the return of Green Jesus.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 12:09 am to Drewbie
martian luthrall kang can kick rocks.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 8:49 am to SailorGator
This thread made me reinstall Guild Wars 2. What exactly am I missing? The game still isn't very fun to play. It's unique in its questing/world progression, but it feels very shallow.
Am I playing it wrong?
Am I playing it wrong?
Posted on 8/2/18 at 9:19 am to oauron
quote:
Am I playing it wrong?
No
This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 9:20 am
Posted on 8/2/18 at 9:30 am to Drewbie
quote:
The only solution is the return of Green Jesus.
Would not be surprised if he comes back at some point this expansion.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 9:39 am to DoUrden
The genre was killed, pretty definitively. I'd assume it never comes back.
The theme park goliath of WoW, mixed with most major publishers going with Free to Play models and making everything less epic. Most of the 2008-2015 or so MMO's adopted either Free to Play, a focus on small packets of content, RNG and gating, or all of the above.
For me, it was the change in LoTRO, which started out as a fantastic MMO, very much a follower of the best, and because of WoW, just destroyed its gameplay models. That was like 2008-2010ish.
The epic days of UO, EQ, DAoC, CoH/V, original LOTRO were handily destroyed. There was something about the big stories, big worlds, big quests that made them work. A few tried to keep it up - Secret World, Horizons, etc., but they all failed.
WoW was the worst thing to happen to the genre. It killed all of the innovation in the genre, and turned the experience into a theme park rather than a world. Those things never last long. And everyone was forced to build against WoW due to its sheer popularity.
The theme park goliath of WoW, mixed with most major publishers going with Free to Play models and making everything less epic. Most of the 2008-2015 or so MMO's adopted either Free to Play, a focus on small packets of content, RNG and gating, or all of the above.
For me, it was the change in LoTRO, which started out as a fantastic MMO, very much a follower of the best, and because of WoW, just destroyed its gameplay models. That was like 2008-2010ish.
The epic days of UO, EQ, DAoC, CoH/V, original LOTRO were handily destroyed. There was something about the big stories, big worlds, big quests that made them work. A few tried to keep it up - Secret World, Horizons, etc., but they all failed.
WoW was the worst thing to happen to the genre. It killed all of the innovation in the genre, and turned the experience into a theme park rather than a world. Those things never last long. And everyone was forced to build against WoW due to its sheer popularity.
This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 9:41 am
Posted on 8/2/18 at 9:51 am to Freauxzen
Nobody got time for the grind no more.
Plus developers just want to stick folks in a simple Battle Royale sandbox and rake in the cash.
Plus developers just want to stick folks in a simple Battle Royale sandbox and rake in the cash.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 9:53 am to Freauxzen
You make some really good points, I guess I just don't see how it's WoW, arguably the most successful MMO, fault the genre died.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 10:25 am to SBvital
quote:
You make some really good points, I guess I just don't see how it's WoW, arguably the most successful MMO, fault the genre died.
It is the most successful, but it's also the worst for the genre.
It was a monopoly essentially. Once it came in and dominated, for the wrong reasons honestly, studios were left with few choices. WoW brought with it to the west Asian gating systems, large scale RNG, and bad versions of raids.
So studios could try to copy the property approach of WoW - this is initially what LOTRO did, use a massively popular property and build a world around it - or copy its mechanisms.
You mix that with the idea that real MMO's required Pay-to-Play systems, and no one was going to pay for two MMO's. Since everyone was going to play WoW - studios were forced to find a way to be the "Second MMO," to WoW. That limits investments, when you give up trying to make a straight better game. And even if nyou made a better game, you had an uphill climb to pull people away from the dedication an MMO takes. Even if someone "likes" an alternative to WoW - they had to pull their friends, give up hundreds of hours of grinding to start all over - not a good proposition.
Risky MMO's like DAoC, Shadowbane, Vanguard, CoH/V, Conan, Aion. If they weren't killed outright for trying something new, they went Free-to-Play within 2-3 years and completely dead soon after. Poor Vanguard, that was the EQ successor.
And without interested, and within limited design choices to "be WoW," innovation and growth stopped. That's what WoW did to the market. Monopolies are rarely good for any market, and this was one of the clearest versions of such a process in VG history. It's sad because some of those games were extremely good, and unique (Ryzom, Shadowbane, Conan, Secret World in Particular).
This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 10:27 am
Posted on 8/2/18 at 10:26 am to SBvital
quote:
You make some really good points, I guess I just don't see how it's WoW, arguably the most successful MMO, fault the genre died.
It took community out of the game. Join up, complete the quest, and drop group. There used to be consequences fore dying, and quests didn't take 5 minutes to complete. I guess it's what the majority of people wanted since it was so successful, but not the MMO experience I came up on.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 10:28 am to DoUrden
quote:
It took community out of the game. Join up, complete the quest, and drop group. There used to be consequences fore dying, and quests didn't take 5 minutes to complete. I guess it's what the majority of people wanted since it was so successful, but not the MMO experience I came up on.
Yup. WoW is the precursor for a lot of trends we see in modern gaming. It had an impact, but not a good one.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 10:47 am to Freauxzen
I have been having fun with Warmode. My alliance guild sacked Orgrimmar last night and have been having some fun in Darkshore.
WoW will be my last mmo. I am not really interested in any others.
WoW will be my last mmo. I am not really interested in any others.
This post was edited on 8/2/18 at 10:50 am
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:03 am to Freauxzen
The things you're talking about are exactly why I'm throwing all my eggs in the Pantheon basket. It's still a bit away (pre-alpha) but I think there's a chance it actually makes it.
They're trying to undo all the things that make us old people think MMO's fricked up over the years. I'm worried I won't have time for it like I want to, because I'm an adult now, but I have really high hopes. Hopes that Brad can manage not to snort up the funds and get this game finished and released
They're trying to undo all the things that make us old people think MMO's fricked up over the years. I'm worried I won't have time for it like I want to, because I'm an adult now, but I have really high hopes. Hopes that Brad can manage not to snort up the funds and get this game finished and released
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:13 am to DoUrden
I sure hope so.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:34 am to oauron
quote:
Am I playing it wrong?
No. It was lame.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:36 am to Doldil
quote:
I'm throwing all my eggs in the Pantheon basket.
Hadn't heard about this but this get me all tingly.
quote:
At Visionary Realms, we believe that the best of MMORPG design is yet to come. We understand how healthy challenge in a game promotes teamwork, often blooming into profound relationships and enduring memories. We focus on these poignant elements of design and aim to provide our players with environments conducive to building reputations, friendships and alliances--as well as rivalries and notoriety. Visionary Realms resumes where past MMORPGs left off with these elements, and is excited to see the genre re-emerge.
Our team comes from the players, as we are players ourselves. We all share the same passion to create meaningful experiences through MMO games. We come from all over the world and have united to answer the call of the gamers who have been searching for a challenging and socially-charged game. We have been searching for it ourselves.
Among us are seasoned industry veterans who have worked on globally celebrated titles like EverQuest, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and Star Wars Galaxies to name a few of the dozens of titles in our collective repertoire. We have personalities who have come from some of the top MMO gaming websites. We also have talented newcomers who have fresh ideas and unique insights. Together we are a highly diverse and driven team, ready to push into the next era of MMO gaming.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:43 am to DoUrden
quote:
It took community out of the game. Join up, complete the quest, and drop group. There used to be consequences fore dying, and quests didn't take 5 minutes to complete. I guess it's what the majority of people wanted since it was so successful, but not the MMO experience I came up on.
I haven't played WoW ever but I agree.
Dungeon finders may be the worst culprit. That and making 80% of a game soloable.
Nothing will ever be like EQ, SWG, CoH for me. But that could just be me outgrowing them.
It is the same way with FPS/TPS and matchmaking. Older games with lobby style matchmaking made the community better.
You lose some things with insta fill. But it is what the vast majority wants.
Posted on 8/2/18 at 11:44 am to Freauxzen
quote:
WoW was the worst thing to happen to the genre. It killed all of the innovation in the genre, and turned the experience into a theme park rather than a world.
That's an interesting take. Pretty sure WoW has more players right now than all pre-WoW American-developed MMOs combined.
That said, Blizzard took what people liked about old school MMOs and made them more accessible to a wider audience.
They didn't force SOE, Mythic, Turbine, etc to create new MMOs that cloned WoW or change their existing games to be more like WoW. These companies did that because they were chasing the amount of money Blizzard was making, but these games either weren't as good as WoW or simply didn't do enough to differentiate themselves from WoW to make them viable long term.
At the end of the day you had WoW and then WoW re-skinned with a valuable IP attached like Star Wars or LotRO.
If you were a hardcore fan of a certain IP or happened to really like a specific gameplay element than the WoW alternative featured, maybe you played that game for awhile. Most of these games though cost so much money to develop that they would've needed to sustain millions of players to be profitable.
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