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Could I Get In Trouble With The ATF?

Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:04 pm
Posted by Jibbajabba
Louisiana
Member since May 2011
3920 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:04 pm
Can anybody point me to a reference for this?

If I legally buy alcohol and then alter it, and then sell it at a farmers market type setup, could I get in trouble with the ATF for not collecting taxes?

A little more specific example.

I recently infused vodka with garlic and cayenne. Could I buy the vodka, infuse it, then sell it to folks and leave Uncle Sam out of the equation?
Posted by lsuwontonwrap
Member since Aug 2012
34147 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:12 pm to
It's never cool to leave Uncle Sam out of the equation. Technically, you're even supposed to pay taxes on garage sale profits. Now, could you? Sure. I doubt there would be any huge consequences, as long as you aren't making tons of money off of it.
Posted by BottomlandBrew
Member since Aug 2010
30208 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:12 pm to
Even if it isn't, they'll find some way to frick you and take your money.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37536 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:14 pm to
Depends on how much you're selling. There is an occasional sale exemption that isn't very clear, but if you are setting up and selling a decent amount you should probably remit tax. You can buy it tax free with a resale certificate though.
Posted by t00f
Not where you think I am
Member since Jul 2016
102368 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:15 pm to
I would talk to the organizer of the farmers market and see what the other vendors are doing. Short answer I would assume this is income and you need to report it.
Posted by KosmoCramer
Member since Dec 2007
80761 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:15 pm to
Louisiana doesn't have laws regarding selling altered liquor?
Posted by NOLAGT
Over there
Member since Dec 2012
14066 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:16 pm to
More so than taxes I think you need a liquor license to sell it. All that only matters if someone rats you out or a agent happens to be there.
This post was edited on 8/8/18 at 7:22 pm
Posted by Jibbajabba
Louisiana
Member since May 2011
3920 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

More so than taxes I think you need a liquor license to sell it.


And that is where I think the ATF would like to have a word with me.
Posted by t00f
Not where you think I am
Member since Jul 2016
102368 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:22 pm to
Probably but just responding to the taxes part.
Posted by Mingo Was His NameO
Brooklyn
Member since Mar 2016
37536 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

All that only matters if someone rats you out or a agent happens to be there.



Seems like a farmers market would be a prime place to see if people are complying with sales tax laws since most probably aren't.
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
32441 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:33 pm to
As long as you are not brewery beer, the ATF will leave you alone.
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
46424 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:46 pm to
How much profit can there be in liquor that you are purchasing at retail?
Posted by BlackenedOut
The Big Sleazy
Member since Feb 2011
6075 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:47 pm to
Depending on the state the answer is this would most likely not be allowed. Now some states may allow a person to sell alcoholic beverages at a farmers market, but I am 99% sure Louisiana isn’t one of them.

The issue isn’t that you are cutting out Uncle Sam per se, it’s that the sale of alcohol is regulated on a state by state basis and you must be licensed by that states ATC to sell alcohol. Uncle Sam and Aunt State ATC get their money in permits and sales tax if you are licensed.
Posted by Zappas Stache
Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Member since Apr 2009
43543 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 7:48 pm to
I would be surprised if the farmers market would allow you to sell alcohol without a state alcohol permit.
Posted by hungryone
river parishes
Member since Sep 2010
11987 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 8:05 pm to
i vend at a local market. We have a couple of occasional vendors who sell fruit wines, but they are the producers, and their product is commercially bottled and labeled. Unless you’ve got all the permits and paperwork in place, most markets will not allow you to sell alcohol. And some markets categorically disallow alcohol sales. A decently organized market will carry an umbrella liability policy, as well as requiring all vendors t carry product liability insurance. I sure as hell wouldn’t sell alcohol without being insured.

Re sales taxes, it’s all on the vendor. Most everyone files electronically these days, so it takes all of 2 minutes to do either a monthly or quarterly filing w state and local agencies. They suck the cash right out of your bank account. But markets ask you to report your gross sales so they can determine booth pricing, fees, etc.
Posted by 03GeeTee
Oklahomastan
Member since Oct 2010
3427 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 8:16 pm to
You wouldn’t be allowed to sell alcohol whether it’s altered or not without having a liquor license.
Posted by MeridianDog
Home on the range
Member since Nov 2010
14539 posts
Posted on 8/8/18 at 10:12 pm to
What you are doing is against the law. First thing you need to do is get a license to sell alcohol, just like any bar or liquor store. And then pay the Taxman.



edited add:


You are a bootlegger! One of a select breed. Might as well set up a still and cook off your own spirits.

This post was edited on 8/8/18 at 10:16 pm
Posted by Gris Gris
OTIS!NO RULES FOR SAUCES ON STEAK!!
Member since Feb 2008
49636 posts
Posted on 8/9/18 at 12:33 am to
My thought is that it’s good to talk with a lawyer about this sort of thing, but I’m probably in the minority since I’ve seen a bazillion threads asking legal questions on TD.
Posted by NOLAGT
Over there
Member since Dec 2012
14066 posts
Posted on 8/9/18 at 6:17 am to
I wasn’t directing my reply at you sorry.

Also something else is double taxation. You can’t buy Liquor at retail and pay taxes on it and then turn around and resell it and charge taxes on it. I have a lic to sell and the ATF will come in and check my invoices and make sure I’m buying from a distributor for that reason.
Posted by AFistfulof$
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2013
1028 posts
Posted on 8/9/18 at 7:03 am to
From a legal standpoint, can you legally resell another company’s product that you’ve altered? ex. You’ve soaked jalapeños in Tito’s and are selling it as pepper vodka, wouldn’t Tito’s itself frown upon this?
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