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Started By
Message
re: Judge backs Houston hospitals decision to fire people without vaccine
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:40 am to the808bass
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:40 am to the808bass
quote:
I never stopped going places. You could’ve done the same. This wasn’t Ebola. It never would’ve been. You can pretend all you want.
There were no concerts. There vanishingly few fans at sporting events. Bars and nightclubs were not open. There were no shows. Was the plan that I break into these places and put these events on by myself?
It shouldn't be controversial to note the FACT that there is more to do today than there was this time last year.
1
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:41 am to the808bass
quote:
The vaccine doesn’t protect better than beating Covid
It (possibly) depends on the severity of your case. In those with milder and asymptomatic cases there is some evidence of a less than robust antibody response that doesn’t generate lasting immunity. And the vaccine is demonstrably more immunogenic than natural infection in the immunocompromised population, and these are really the only group of patients who’ve had covid I still strongly recommend the vaccine in.
For those who had a case of moderate or severely illness yes, there’s no evidence of additional vaccine benefit.
This post was edited on 6/13/21 at 11:42 am
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:42 am to longwayfromLA
That’s not because of reality. It’s because of narratives.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:42 am to idlewatcher
quote:
You don’t think making a mandatory vaccine a condition of your employment isn’t dangerous?
This is already done in some areas. Many healthcare centers require flu vaccines especially if many or most of their patients are at high risk from the flu.
However the flu vaccine is fully fda approved. The covid vaccine is not. That is a difference.
quote:
What about when they demand you have gender reassignment surgery? Many of your types are single issue people and don’t see the bigger picture….nor implications.
What in the actual frick.
I have saud I disagree with the ruling. I said I am open to hearing how the ruling is a good ruling because the law is fricked up sometimes.
So if there is a good reason for the ruling, I want to learn it.
However going from mandating vaccines, which some already do, to demanding you have gender reassignment surgery is a crazy leap.
Not to say in this fricked up clown world I would ever say this couldn't happen, but just slow your roll there a bit.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:42 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
In those with milder and asymptomatic cases there is some evidence of a less than robust antibody response that doesn’t regenerate lasting immunity.
Omg! There’s some evidence? frick your couch.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:45 am to the808bass
If you don’t want to have a nuanced discussion then just say so, no need to get angry. You’ve been really on edge lately 
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:45 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I don’t understand why you find this head scratching, it’s the correct ruling. I thought we didn’t support judicial activism from the bench?
Roger, I respect your opinion. Would you please explain to me why this is the case?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:47 am to the808bass
quote:
That’s not because of reality. It’s because of narratives.
So we're back on it's just the flu? Fine. Tell yourself whatever you need to. My point is it is a FACT that the return of society in the US is 100% the product of us having vaccinated most of the adult population. That is not a controversial statement. It's just true.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:47 am to thetempleowl
quote:
Roger, I respect your opinion. Would you please explain to me why this is the case?
See my first post on page 3
Given that this is the correct ruling, legally speaking, any other ruling would represent judicial activism by definition.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:53 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
There’s extensive precedent in terms of courts upholding vaccine requirements for school/work, and contrary to popular belief EUA in practice does not prevent a business from requiring the vaccine.
I understand the first part. I in fact have stated that.
However have we ever been in a situation where this has included vaccines that are under eua and not full fda approval?
If they have previously done this, then fine, it is precendent. But legally there is a difference between fda approved and eua.
quote:
This has consistently been interpreted to mean that as long as the employee is aware of the consequences of refusing the vaccine, up to and including termination, those consequences can be enforced.
Again, I have no problem with that.
I also understand HIPAA has nothing to do with this.
I am focusing only on the eua vs fully approved thing.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:53 am to longwayfromLA
quote:
My point is it is a FACT that the return of society in the US is 100% the product of us having vaccinated most of the adult population. That is not a controversial statement. It's just true.
no, the return of society is happening because our government overlords are finally loosening their grip
quote:
“The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.”
? Ronald Reagan
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:55 am to thetempleowl
quote:
And the data says you are foolish.
The data that says my immune system is far more effective than an untried and unproven vaccine?
The China Virus is not a higher risk strain to anyone outside of extreme circumstance. Obese, elderly, pre existing has a higher risk. Exactly as they do with any other virus. We didn’t force vaccines after MERS or SARS or any of the others. Why this one?
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:55 am to the808bass
quote:
No. It’s not.
You are correct. I am right and you are wrong.
I was cutting you some slack.
And to some degree the difference is not relevant. But the difference does become relevant.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:55 am to FATBOY TIGER
quote:
Not anymore it would seem, liberty did not reign in this ruling.
Technically it did - employer was allowed to set whatever work conditions it wants, and the judge said it isn't the government's concern.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:56 am to dartman
quote:
If the hospital is strictly private, that's their business.
What other health choices can private businesses force on their employees?
Can they force all women to take birth control?
Can they require all men to have vasectomies?
Can they fire you for catching an STD?
How about if you refuse to take chemo for cancer? Can they get rid of you then?
Why not allow companies to require all employees take Adderall? Private businesses can do whatever they want, right?
People that are willing to surrender their freedoms to a company are insane. The contract between an employer and employee should be nothing more than doing the job you're paid to do and don't actively ruin the company's reputation.
Refusing to take a medication you don't need does not violate either of those.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:58 am to supatigah
quote:
no, the return of society is happening because our government overlords are finally loosening their grip
Right. As a result of diminishing cases and deaths which are themselves the result of the vaccines. Absent the vaccine, things would look very different. I have no idea why this obvious fact is so controversial.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 11:58 am to NIH
quote:
and about as anti-liberal as it gets.
Apparently not.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:01 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
quote:
Not anymore it would seem, liberty did not reign in this ruling.
Technically it did - employer was allowed to set whatever work conditions it wants, and the judge said it isn't the government's concern.
Muh Free Market: Liberty for corporations to do whatever the F#^% they want and demand YOU do it, or your livlihood gets taken away.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:01 pm to CodeName1
quote:
Here’s what they don’t know. What the coronavirus vaccine does. What they learn during all of those years of education you listed, they learn to use controlled studies, data and evidence to make clinical decisions. This vaccine lacks the data and evidence necessary needed to make informed decisions. Those facts simply can’t be argued against.
First of all, all facts can be argued against.
But the more important statement is that we know how mrna vaccines work. We have long term studies with them for limited use.
This is the first time they are being used like this, but it doesn't invalidate all the information we have on them.
So, if someone suggests that taking two 200 mg tablets of ibuprofen versus a 400 mg tablet of ibuprofen, many say they are the same. And I agree. But hold on. How about if no test has been done to determine just this? OMG!!!!
The vaccine does not lack the data necessary to make informed decisions. The true point is we never have absolute data when making decisions. But we make the best decisions we can make all the time.
The moderna and Pfizer vaccines will likely be granted full fda approval soon.
Posted on 6/13/21 at 12:04 pm to the808bass
quote:
We don’t shut down economies because of the danger of car crashes. That’s what we did for the coronavirus.
OMG. Really? Well why didn't you say so.
Oh, hold on. I have said the same things for a year.
And I said I disagreed with the lockdowns earlier in this thread if I remember correctly.
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