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Spacing on this team is terrible.

Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:03 am
Posted by LSU Fan 90812
A man more eviler than Skeletor.
Member since Feb 2005
50655 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:03 am
it’s a personnel problem.

There are three sometimes four non shooters on the court at a time (depending on if Lonzo or Bledsoe is on). It allows everyone to collapse and double Zion, who already had Adams clogging the paint.

Bledsoe or Lonzo (whomever gets the most) need to get moved for a 3-D player or stretch big. The offense should be running through Ingram most possessions anyway



This post was edited on 1/5/21 at 12:05 am
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
18452 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:08 am to
Lonzo has been shooting the ball pretty well, though.
Posted by LSU Fan 90812
A man more eviler than Skeletor.
Member since Feb 2005
50655 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:12 am to
He’s not a bad shooter but an inconsistent one.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
18452 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:31 am to
I just realized he is only shooting .302 from deep. Not great, Bob. I suspect he will improve to over .350 within 10 games, though.
Posted by Macintosh
Leveraging Salaries University
Member since Sep 2011
55314 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:44 am to
quote:

it’s a personnel problem.

we get so cluttered around the paint. It’s really bad. Will be a problem for us the whole season.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12754 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:46 am to
Too many bail out shots from Lonzo causing his percentage to drop early on when they were overpassing the ball outside of Zion and Ingram.

After tonight, he's up to 34.6 percentage from deep. Steadily climbing back to his expected range.

He also up to 13 ppg now on 42% which is promising.
Posted by LSU Fan 90812
A man more eviler than Skeletor.
Member since Feb 2005
50655 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 12:59 am to
Just think of what Zion could do if he had room
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
62446 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 7:28 am to
He’ll never have space unless they get really elite upgrades. I did the math in a thread before the season and you need like a 46% 3 point shooter to be the same threat Zion is at the rim. The math says unless you turn Bledsoe and Lonzo into Steph and Klay, teams should sell out everyone to stop Zion.

Space is a pipe dream with Zion. I think that makes the focus on defense important. The Pels should have beaten a good Indy team that was hot from 3 comfortably last night. They just fell to pieces in the last 2 minutes.

And I’m not saying the Pels should ignore shooting, they should get as much as they can, but I think it only buys you limited space unless it’s elite so they need to make sure the defense stays good while adding shooting.
Posted by Split2874
Mandeville
Member since Jul 2012
3174 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 7:42 am to
Another thing that hurts the spacing is Zion going left. Right now he uses the spin move from the right side and he puts himself into the defense. If he can go right less traffic and a possible rebound from the weak side.
Posted by Epic Cajun
Lafayette, LA
Member since Feb 2013
36157 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 7:48 am to
quote:

It allows everyone to collapse and double Zion
They are going to do this regardless of who is on the court with him. It's up to him to make the correct passes in those situations.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
127702 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 7:57 am to
I feel like this may have been mentioned this offseason.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12754 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 7:58 am to
He needs a ball handler who can shoot off the dribble all the way out to 28ft at a high level on high volume at 7-10 attempts at 38%. That's hard to find a player who can do it well enough to command respect. Having that type of skillset forces teams to guard you all the way out near half court and creates ideal space for Zion.
Posted by TeddyPadillac
Member since Dec 2010
29611 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 8:00 am to
quote:

Space is a pipe dream with Zion.


I don't think so.

our biggest issue is not having enough guards that can break the defense down. Once you get past that first guy, you force the defense to react to it and make them start scrambling. We just don't do that enough. No one cares if Lonzo blows by his man, and Bledsoe hasn't been anywhere near as aggressive as he's been in the past. In the first 5 games Bledsoe took 6 free throws total. 3 years ago in Phoenix as the lead guard he was averaging 6.9FTA per game. That number went down playing with Giannis who became the lead ball handler, but he needs to get back to attacking. We are a better team when he can attack the rim. Someone has to be able to attack the rim other than BI. Our problem is no one cares if we shoot 3's, and no one cares if we drive to the rim unless it's BI or Zion, so all teams are doing is focusing on clogging the paint and forcing kick outs when BI or Zion has the ball.
Posted by cajun_tiger
Member since Jun 2012
235 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 8:04 am to
I like how you put it in regards to how good a 3pt shooter must be to be as effective as Zion at the rim. I think it could be that we have it wrong when it comes to Zion and spacing. It could very well be that Zion and his gravity are going to be what gives our team the spacing, and it will be dominant once he becomes good/great and finding open teammates and passing out of doubles and triples. We just need guys who can consistently hit 3's at even a league average rate and play good defense. I don't think we'll ever see teams play Zion like they did last year again, so that will keep his scoring per game down some, but I could see a world where Zion grows into averaging 5+ assists a game and it being overall better for the team.
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 8:54 am to
Hard to make the right pass when the open guys he is going to swing the ball to can’t hit shots reliably.

Teams are selling out to double and triple Zion and smother Ingram, which maybe they will do no matter what without another superstar here, but they are often finding success because no one can reliably hit shots, get to the rim, or reliably create their own offense/playmake off those passes and in the half court besides Ingram.

We are like 13th in the league in potential assists but 21st in actual points off assists. So we are doing a slightly above average job of finding guys, but doing a below average job turning those into points.

And not saying Zion doesn’t need to improve, but he’s actually averaging an additional potential assist this year compared to last year but fewer points off assists total, so when he makes passes people are hitting them at a less frequent rate.

And considering we are attempting to replicate Milwaukee, I think one of the troubling early trends is that Milwaukee works not just because of defense, but offense as well. They may give up threes, but they also lead the league in attempts and 3P%. 3rd in made threes last year. Top in overall FG’s made. We are near the bottom third of the league in all those categories. We still maintain an overall positive net rating right now, and I know SVG mentioned offense got the short end of the stick because of time constraints of the schedule, but I think it’s something we are going to have to figure out internally or through personnel moves by Griffin in the coming seasons. Because this may be basketball that can eek you out 40-45 wins or so in a normal season if you remain disciplined and don’t play down to your schedule, but it’s going to be exploited by the better teams in the league IMO.
This post was edited on 1/5/21 at 9:00 am
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12754 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 8:59 am to
I think SVG need to give Zion the reigns a bit more on the perimeter to create. Since he's not going to receive ideal spacing, SVG gotta mix it up a bit more and let Zion play that Giannis role from the perimeter. Teams are crashing hard when he's in the post pretty effectively.
Posted by Tiger1242
Member since Jul 2011
33040 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 9:07 am to
quote:

our biggest issue is not having enough guards that can break the defense down. Once you get past that first guy, you force the defense to react to it and make them start scrambling. We just don't do that enough.


I agree 100% with this. Obviously hitting more 3’s helps but I actually think we settle for too many. If our guards attacked the rim help would have to come leaving Zion open or at least in a 1 on 1 scenario. Problem is the only guard that really attacks consistently right now is BI and he’s not looking to pass

quote:

think SVG need to give Zion the reigns a bit more on the perimeter to create. Since he's not going to receive ideal spacing, SVG gotta mix it up a bit more and let Zion play that Giannis role from the perimeter.


I also agree with this post. Zion isn’t a horrible 3pt shooter, there are much worse shooters taking 3’s on other teams. Let him get the ball on the perimeter, look to bulldog his way to the rim, and if they sag off why not let him shoot a few 3’s? If he’s hot that night he becomes unguardable, if he’s not, Zion with a full head of steam barreling to the rim is hard for a defense, even if they know it’s coming
Posted by Bronc
Member since Sep 2018
12646 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 9:16 am to
quote:

Zion isn’t a horrible 3pt shooter,


He’s not a good one either. If the other team is forcing us into possessions where we are regularly settling for Zion dribble threes, I would bet money that is a game we lose 9 times out of 10.

I agree that it would be nice to see Zion more involved in actions and put in position where he can get going downhill, it seems when we find those opportunities the few times a game we do it leads to good things. But there are just limitations right now with Zion’s game that he is going to need to improve his jumper and refine his handle/playmaking before he can truly exploit from the perimeter as a playmaker on a regular basis.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112572 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 9:18 am to
quote:

Spacing on this team is terrible.

Yep.

Zion not being a good passer yet is struggling when the wall is built, as well as, as much as we all love Steven Adams, I just don't like the fit with him and Zion. Every time Zion drives to the rim he is met by Adams' guy just sliding over a step or 2 and it's an easy double team.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112572 posts
Posted on 1/5/21 at 9:19 am to
quote:

Just think of what Zion could do if he had room

Game before last night in the 2nd half, he had those 2 nice plays where we got him the ball at the top of the paint and he went quick to the hoop with that spin move.

I hoped to see more of that as it makes it harder to get the wall built in time, but we didn't go back to that once all last night.
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