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re: Accounting Majors -- Any experiences here?
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:33 am to Odysseus32
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:33 am to Odysseus32
One of the most difficult things about the CPA exam is preparing for it. You have to be dedicated and figure out what method of studying works best for you. What worked for you in HS & college, may not be what works for you preparing for the test.
I can't speak to the recruiting aspect, because I wasn't an accounting major so wasn't recruited (someone mentioned the clubs, that is the way to go)
Public is not for everyone, but I believe it is an experience worthwhile. Most industry jobs "require" the experience before considering. Big 4 experience will get your foot in the door just about everywhere, but is not a guarantee for success. I hated the Regional firm life because they tended to overcompensate bc they want to be a big 4. The Regional firm idea of work life balance is 60-70 hours a week, but they let you have the weekends off. I loved the small firm life because I was able to touch everything, but I found it difficult to get interviews going up against firms with name recognition.
I always knew industry was my life, but I figured the best approach would be to start in public so I can come in at a higher level. Had a 5 year public plan, took almost 8 to land my first industry job. I know a lot of people that started in industry, but were stuck in lower level positions because the company kept bringing in people with firm experience for the desirable positions. Some are still stuck as a cog in the machine making comfortable livings. Others have spent the last 10-15 years jumping jobs every few years to move up the chain.
If you do decide to go straight to industry, learn the culture and pay close attention to how they fill the desirable positions. Unfortunately, you may not be able to figure this out until you are already there for a few years. You will want to be loyal to the company for a variety of reasons, but do not get caught being loyal to the wrong corporate culture (especially early on).
I can't speak to the recruiting aspect, because I wasn't an accounting major so wasn't recruited (someone mentioned the clubs, that is the way to go)
Public is not for everyone, but I believe it is an experience worthwhile. Most industry jobs "require" the experience before considering. Big 4 experience will get your foot in the door just about everywhere, but is not a guarantee for success. I hated the Regional firm life because they tended to overcompensate bc they want to be a big 4. The Regional firm idea of work life balance is 60-70 hours a week, but they let you have the weekends off. I loved the small firm life because I was able to touch everything, but I found it difficult to get interviews going up against firms with name recognition.
I always knew industry was my life, but I figured the best approach would be to start in public so I can come in at a higher level. Had a 5 year public plan, took almost 8 to land my first industry job. I know a lot of people that started in industry, but were stuck in lower level positions because the company kept bringing in people with firm experience for the desirable positions. Some are still stuck as a cog in the machine making comfortable livings. Others have spent the last 10-15 years jumping jobs every few years to move up the chain.
If you do decide to go straight to industry, learn the culture and pay close attention to how they fill the desirable positions. Unfortunately, you may not be able to figure this out until you are already there for a few years. You will want to be loyal to the company for a variety of reasons, but do not get caught being loyal to the wrong corporate culture (especially early on).
1
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:45 am to Weekend Warrior79
quote:
loved the small firm life because I was able to touch everything, but I found it difficult to get interviews going up against firms with name recognition.
This was the only drawback I found with the smaller firm route. I loved not being stuck entirely in tax or audit and getting lots of exposure to both while at a small firm. But when it came time to move on, it took almost a year to find the right opportunity. That was frustrating, especially when I had friends from larger firms getting offers without even really interviewing.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:47 am to Odysseus32
The size firm you target will depend and what you want to do. Generally speaking, going Big4 is great for the resume and networking but it's not an absolute necessity if you don't only want to work on large clients.
I would avoid going Industry right out of school, especially if you are Tax. The advancement is muuuch slower in Industry and you run the risk of being a career Staff or Senior. It doesn't happen to every one but it is a risk.
As for the CPA, you can do the Becker stuff if a firm pays for it and you find it helpful. Frankly, I didn't have the patience to sit through the lectures and just did a shite ton of practice problems and found that to be more efficient. It will depend on your learning style though.
I would avoid going Industry right out of school, especially if you are Tax. The advancement is muuuch slower in Industry and you run the risk of being a career Staff or Senior. It doesn't happen to every one but it is a risk.
As for the CPA, you can do the Becker stuff if a firm pays for it and you find it helpful. Frankly, I didn't have the patience to sit through the lectures and just did a shite ton of practice problems and found that to be more efficient. It will depend on your learning style though.
This post was edited on 6/16/20 at 10:58 am
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:49 am to Odysseus32
I spent 18 years in public accounting. If you want any kind of home/social life, DON’T DO IT!
Posted on 6/16/20 at 10:54 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:THIS is good information. Thank you.
I work in accounting. Worked Big 4 right out of school Doing audit and am now at a smaller firm doing consulting. CPA exam is tough but doable and I was a C student. Very secure field with tons of opportunity. Happy to answer any questions.
As my grades weren’t that good, I tried to leverage contacts to land my first job. The fact of the matter is I’m a better worker than student and big 4 firms need people, so I was able to do some informal meetings and lunches which led to an interview. After that your grades don’t really matter. I DONT recommend doing it this way Just focus in school and know how to talk to people and you’ll land a good job.
My starts his Jr yr this Fall, and he carries a 3.2 GPA. He can talk to anyone about anything, a super personable guy and will work like crazy on a job. He loves the social life though and will knock off for a pitcher of beer in the middle of studying any time. The plan right is to go on to graduate school, but I just don't see that GPA getting any higher.
I'm happy to know that the 3.5 GPA may not be such a hard line as I'd previously thought.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:11 am to RT1941
His 3.2 GPA should be plenty good for most respectable firms but his personality will put him over the edge. He will be just fine.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:26 am to Odysseus32
I was at a large firm for 5 years and have been in industry for 4 years since leaving. Everything ENTIRELY depends on your team. If you get put on a sucky team, you can be screwed so it varies tremendously even within the same office. I had to leave because I had a family and never saw my wife/kids. 60+ hours from Mid January into May can take a toll. I have personally experienced 100 hour weeks and they suck the life out of you. It’s good money and opens up opportunities but there will most likely be some sacrifices made.
I was on several large clients where there is always something happening. YE audit turns into Q1 and then they have a transaction/offering right after Q1 that you weren’t expecting. Also, depending on the office, you could have some travel. You really don’t have much of a say in the matter. Right after we filed a brutal 10-k, I got an email from a staffing person saying i was scheduled to go out of town for 3 weeks on a first year client. Had a fun conversation with my wife who also has a FT job about how I couldn’t help with our kids for the next month.
I am in a great position now that I really like so I can’t shite completely on it but you just have to know what you’re signing up for.
I was on several large clients where there is always something happening. YE audit turns into Q1 and then they have a transaction/offering right after Q1 that you weren’t expecting. Also, depending on the office, you could have some travel. You really don’t have much of a say in the matter. Right after we filed a brutal 10-k, I got an email from a staffing person saying i was scheduled to go out of town for 3 weeks on a first year client. Had a fun conversation with my wife who also has a FT job about how I couldn’t help with our kids for the next month.
I am in a great position now that I really like so I can’t shite completely on it but you just have to know what you’re signing up for.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 11:40 am to Odysseus32
Big 4 is not the only track
I start small CPA firm then did internal audit. Did a few years big 4 as advisory and now doing Accounting function.
How old are you I would advise 2-3 years of external or internal audit
I start small CPA firm then did internal audit. Did a few years big 4 as advisory and now doing Accounting function.
How old are you I would advise 2-3 years of external or internal audit
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:11 pm to Odysseus32
I'll give you a little background on me and then answer your questions.
I got my undergrad in MIS and started as a computed programmer. Hated it and knew I had to change after 6 months. I had a late bday and was on the 5 year plan at UA so I didn't really start working until I was almost 24. Worked as programmer and got another undergrad in accounting and started MAcc program so I would qualify to sit for CPA exam. Started working as a staff auditor at a local firm when I was about 29. Finished up MAcc and passed the exam. Decided the grass might be greener so I went into industry as a controller and then CFO. Hated it and wanted back into public after about 2 years. Rejoined the same firm to lead the consulting practice. Made partner after about 4 years. Couldn't imagine doing anything else.
Our firm would be considered local even though we have offices in multiple cities/states. We are about 95 FTE's for reference.
Our recruiting starts around sophomore year of college. It is highly competitive. We have had recruiting events where some of the students weren't old enough to drink. We have a strong intern program and that is our first choice for hiring. We have a full time recruiter an she is always at college recruiting events, meet the firm nights and then hosting our own events. It goes on year round. You really need to get some kind of internship if you want multiple job offers.
It has been awhile but I remember it being a weeding process where I thought the classes got easier as you went. Maybe I was just paying more attention? Personally, I struggled with governmental accounting. It is basically the opposite of business accounting and I knew I would never use it.
I think people are wired for one or the other and you will have to look at yourself. I hated industry because I got bored. I liked having new challenges everyday and dealing with a variety of clients. I also really like business development. Some people have a notion that there are less hours in industry but I do not agree. I always tell staff that are looking at staying with us vs industry that if you want to make serious money you are not going to work 40 hours no matter what your job is. To me, there is no limit on what you can make in public accounting but I felt I had a ceiling in industry unless I job hopped or was able to get some equity in a company. I think comp and stress are about the same. In industry you can make low 6 figures and work 45 hours a week with minimal stress. Same in our firm but you also have the potential to make a lot more if you want to bust it.
Like any test of that magnitude, you are going to have to study. No way around that. But difficulty is going to be driven by the section. I believe they have restructured the test some, but when I took it I was doing audits so I aced that section. My reserach and written questions were things I dealt with regularly. BEC was hard because the info is a mile wide and an inch deep. You may have a question about IT, HR and economics sequentially. I failed FAR the first time because I drew a test that was heavy on governmental accounting. The next time, I had only a couple of governmental questions so I passed with a pretty good score. I have never done taxes so I studied my arse off for REG and barely passed.
Good luck to you. You have unlimited job possibilities and directions you can take accounting. You are making a good choice.
I got my undergrad in MIS and started as a computed programmer. Hated it and knew I had to change after 6 months. I had a late bday and was on the 5 year plan at UA so I didn't really start working until I was almost 24. Worked as programmer and got another undergrad in accounting and started MAcc program so I would qualify to sit for CPA exam. Started working as a staff auditor at a local firm when I was about 29. Finished up MAcc and passed the exam. Decided the grass might be greener so I went into industry as a controller and then CFO. Hated it and wanted back into public after about 2 years. Rejoined the same firm to lead the consulting practice. Made partner after about 4 years. Couldn't imagine doing anything else.
Our firm would be considered local even though we have offices in multiple cities/states. We are about 95 FTE's for reference.
quote:
I went back to school Summer of 2019 and I'm pursuing accounting. I've just started my financial and managerial accounting courses this summer after finishing up my prerequisites. I'm very much nervous/excited about the prospect of recruiting for public accounting, even though I've read horror stories around the internet. I've also read that some people can be dramatic and it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Our recruiting starts around sophomore year of college. It is highly competitive. We have had recruiting events where some of the students weren't old enough to drink. We have a strong intern program and that is our first choice for hiring. We have a full time recruiter an she is always at college recruiting events, meet the firm nights and then hosting our own events. It goes on year round. You really need to get some kind of internship if you want multiple job offers.
quote:
Hardest courses in your junior and senior years?
It has been awhile but I remember it being a weeding process where I thought the classes got easier as you went. Maybe I was just paying more attention? Personally, I struggled with governmental accounting. It is basically the opposite of business accounting and I knew I would never use it.
quote:
Public vs Industry?
I think people are wired for one or the other and you will have to look at yourself. I hated industry because I got bored. I liked having new challenges everyday and dealing with a variety of clients. I also really like business development. Some people have a notion that there are less hours in industry but I do not agree. I always tell staff that are looking at staying with us vs industry that if you want to make serious money you are not going to work 40 hours no matter what your job is. To me, there is no limit on what you can make in public accounting but I felt I had a ceiling in industry unless I job hopped or was able to get some equity in a company. I think comp and stress are about the same. In industry you can make low 6 figures and work 45 hours a week with minimal stress. Same in our firm but you also have the potential to make a lot more if you want to bust it.
quote:
How hard is the CPA exam?
Like any test of that magnitude, you are going to have to study. No way around that. But difficulty is going to be driven by the section. I believe they have restructured the test some, but when I took it I was doing audits so I aced that section. My reserach and written questions were things I dealt with regularly. BEC was hard because the info is a mile wide and an inch deep. You may have a question about IT, HR and economics sequentially. I failed FAR the first time because I drew a test that was heavy on governmental accounting. The next time, I had only a couple of governmental questions so I passed with a pretty good score. I have never done taxes so I studied my arse off for REG and barely passed.
Good luck to you. You have unlimited job possibilities and directions you can take accounting. You are making a good choice.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:13 pm to Moretiger
quote:
It’s good money and opens up opportunities but there will most likely be some sacrifices made.
And this is where a lot of people get stuck. They start making that great money and will only move on if they can find a job making %%% more. Twice in my career I took a pay cut to make a move. 1st was from public to industry (30% decrease), then to get the work life balance I wanted (15% decrease). I now make a very good living and could easily make more, but I have a young family and would rather focus on that.
Plus, when I'm on vacation, I actually get to be on vacation and don't lose half a day on conference calls.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:23 pm to BamaAlum02
quote:
To me, there is no limit on what you can make in public accounting but I felt I had a ceiling in industry unless I job hopped or was able to get some equity in a company. I think comp and stress are about the same. In industry you can make low 6 figures and work 45 hours a week with minimal stress. Same in our firm but you also have the potential to make a lot more if you want to bust it.
I think this is probably highly dependent on location. There is a lot of money to be made in industry in certain cities/sectors. I think in tech in a city like SF/Seattle industry is making more than big 4 through like partner level, which obviously has a higher ceiling than almost anything in industry.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:26 pm to Odysseus32
Intermediate 2 was tough, but I hated tax the most.
Consider other areas in the industry as you work toward your degree. Not everyone has to become a big 4 financial auditor or tax accountant with that degree. Take some IT/security courses, take an internal audit course if available. There are plenty of organizations out there that focus on specialties that may interest you (healthcare, payer card, federal, InfoSec, CloudSec, etc.) And the Big 4 do most/all of those too.
Try and sit for the CPA as soon as you're eligible if you think there is ever a chance you'd want to make your way up to shareholder of a firm, or start your own, or just to have that skill set and flexibility to shift gears on the specific path.
Consider other areas in the industry as you work toward your degree. Not everyone has to become a big 4 financial auditor or tax accountant with that degree. Take some IT/security courses, take an internal audit course if available. There are plenty of organizations out there that focus on specialties that may interest you (healthcare, payer card, federal, InfoSec, CloudSec, etc.) And the Big 4 do most/all of those too.
Try and sit for the CPA as soon as you're eligible if you think there is ever a chance you'd want to make your way up to shareholder of a firm, or start your own, or just to have that skill set and flexibility to shift gears on the specific path.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:29 pm to Weekend Warrior79
Yeah, work-life balance has always been more important to me than making a large amount of money. I live comfortably now, and rarely work more than 40 hours per week. During our slow period in the summer, I usually only work 30-35 hours per week. I get to go to all my kids' activities, have time to get stuff done around the house on the weekends, home at a decent time every night to help with homework and whatnot. Not sure I'd trade that for double my salary if it meant longer, more stressful hours.
Oh, and when I leave the office, work is left there. I rarely get calls after hours or on my off days.
Oh, and when I leave the office, work is left there. I rarely get calls after hours or on my off days.
This post was edited on 6/16/20 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:32 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
I think this is probably highly dependent on location. There is a lot of money to be made in industry in certain cities/sectors. I think in tech in a city like SF/Seattle industry is making more than big 4 through like partner level,
That's mainly finance, and thats like an old boys club type thing. For the most part, they only recruit certain schools.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:35 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
That's mainly finance, and thats like an old boys club type thing. For the most part, they only recruit certain schools.
Meh, there are a lot of accounting folks at Amazon, Microsoft, Google, etc. Pretty sure an accounting manager at Amazon is doing a lot better than a Big 4 manager, although it's not really a fair comparison.
There's a lot of money to be made at the smaller tech companies too. Know a few people who have made a career out of helping smaller mid to late stage tech startups prep for acquisitions/IPOs then moving on to the next one. Would assume that's more lucrative than most public jobs also.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:38 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
I think this is probably highly dependent on location. There is a lot of money to be made in industry in certain cities/sectors. I think in tech in a city like SF/Seattle industry is making more than big 4 through like partner level, which obviously has a higher ceiling than almost anything in industry.
I just mean it seems like you have more control over it in public accounting. As a staff/senior in public I can bust it and bill more hours and get immediate compensation increases through bonuses and raises. If I am a clerk or accounting manager (or wherever the industry equivalent may be), working harder likely won't translate to more than a percent or 2 difference in my scheduled COLA raise.
Likewise with a partner/CFO comparison. As a partner I can bill more or bring in new clients and there is no limit to how high my comp can go. As a CFO I may have opportunities to hit performance milestones but many are out of my control. If I do everything right but our sales team has a bad year and revenue is flat or doesn't increase, I'm probably not getting the big bonus and the double digit percentage raise.
As you mentioned, there are definitely situations where it can be more lucrative in industry. Especially where there are stock incentives involved. Those can be a game changer. Some type of equity would be a must for me in an industry job.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:40 pm to BamaAlum02
quote:
I just mean it seems like you have more control over it in public accounting. As a staff/senior in public I can bust it and bill more hours and get immediate compensation increases through bonuses and raises. If I am a clerk or accounting manager (or wherever the industry equivalent may be), working harder likely won't translate to more than a percent or 2 difference in my scheduled COLA raise.
Likewise with a partner/CFO comparison. As a partner I can bill more or bring in new clients and there is no limit to how high my comp can go. As a CFO I may have opportunities to hit performance milestones but many are out of my control. If I do everything right but our sales team has a bad year and revenue is flat or doesn't increase, I'm probably not getting the big bonus and the double digit percentage raise.
As you mentioned, there are definitely situations where it can be more lucrative in industry. Especially where there are stock incentives involved. Those can be a game changer. Some type of equity would be a must for me in an industry job.
Agree with all of this.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:40 pm to Odysseus32
The difficult part of the CPA exam is putting in the time for it, consistently and sticking with it for long enough to get through before you run out of time in your 18 month window. It's mostly an endurance thing and making the time sacrifice of not being able to spend as much time with your friends and maybe family while you are working your way through it. The actual material isn't that difficult and is tested at a pretty shallow level. There's just a lot of it to go through, and you have to spend the time.
Also, in particular, hit your governmental and NFP hard when studying for FAR. It's consistently a large proportion of that test. If you have the option of taking a Governmental and NFP class while in school I would highly encourage it even if you don't have plans to do anything related to that industry just because of how much it helps with FAR.
Also, in particular, hit your governmental and NFP hard when studying for FAR. It's consistently a large proportion of that test. If you have the option of taking a Governmental and NFP class while in school I would highly encourage it even if you don't have plans to do anything related to that industry just because of how much it helps with FAR.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:41 pm to MusclesofBrussels
quote:
Pretty sure an accounting manager at Amazon is doing a lot better than a Big 4 manager,
Not really. That side of house for those big tech companies isn't really that different than anywhere else. The finance side, which accounting people can do, are where the money is, but you need tech industry experience.
Posted on 6/16/20 at 12:44 pm to GRTiger
quote:
Consider other areas in the industry as you work toward your degree. Not everyone has to become a big 4 financial auditor or tax accountant with that degree. Take some IT/security courses, take an internal audit course if available. There are plenty of organizations out there that focus on specialties that may interest you (healthcare, payer card, federal, InfoSec, CloudSec, etc.) And the Big 4 do most/all of those too.
I don't do any audit or tax. I am 100% consulting which is primarily outsourced CFO for a niche industry in our firm.
quote:
Try and sit for the CPA as soon as you're eligible if you think there is ever a chance you'd want to make your way up to shareholder of a firm, or start your own, or just to have that skill set and flexibility to shift gears on the specific path.
Getting the exam out of the way is crucial. There are always a million things you would rather do than take practice questions. Having a wife, kids and other commitments only adds to that.
I will disagree somewhat in that it is becoming much more common to see non-CPA shareholders. The reason is because of your first point. We may hire someone who is an IT, HR, or Operations expert. They likely don't have a CPA but have a clear path to shareholder.
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