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Started By
Message
Here's where I think Trump went wrong re the virus
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:56 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:56 pm
IMO, the big problem has been scientists in narrow domains (epidemiology) being given the authority/gravitas to opine on things for which we shouldn't care about their opinion - most relevantly, the shutdown.
Trump should have - earlier on - not downplayed the significance of the virus. He should have instead adopted a Churchillian "we will have to suck it up and fight through stance". It's tough, but we'll face it head on, together.
So now we are left in the position where he has continually talked down numbers that are going higher. This makes him look bad relative to the scientists - and thus sticks us with the shite sandwich of having to listen to fricking germ doctors tell us we can't go to work.
Just my two cents. I know it's easier to know everything with hindsight. But Trump made what turned out to be a tactical error here - with potentially grave consequences.
Trump should have - earlier on - not downplayed the significance of the virus. He should have instead adopted a Churchillian "we will have to suck it up and fight through stance". It's tough, but we'll face it head on, together.
So now we are left in the position where he has continually talked down numbers that are going higher. This makes him look bad relative to the scientists - and thus sticks us with the shite sandwich of having to listen to fricking germ doctors tell us we can't go to work.
Just my two cents. I know it's easier to know everything with hindsight. But Trump made what turned out to be a tactical error here - with potentially grave consequences.
20
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:00 pm to Big Scrub TX
In hindsight, yes.
But at the time we did not know what we were dealing with.
We did see horrible things from a overwhelmed Italian heathcare system and we did not know where this was going.
I don't blame him for shutting down, but now we know the virus is highly contagious but has a low mortality rate it is time to reopen.
But at the time we did not know what we were dealing with.
We did see horrible things from a overwhelmed Italian heathcare system and we did not know where this was going.
I don't blame him for shutting down, but now we know the virus is highly contagious but has a low mortality rate it is time to reopen.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:06 pm to bird35
quote:not just in hindsight. Many people saw this for what it was while some downplayed it until the very last minute. Hell, I remember making fun of HailtoMichigan for his constant damage control posting back in January.
In hindsight, yes
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:08 pm to bird35
quote:
In hindsight, yes.
But at the time we did not know what we were dealing with.
We did see horrible things from a overwhelmed Italian heathcare system and we did not know where this was going.
I don't blame him for shutting down, but now we know the virus is highly contagious but has a low mortality rate it is time to reopen.
Yeah. I think the public reaction got ahead of him and, by that point, there was no way to turn back. I don’t even disagree with the OP really, but you can only really say it in perfect hindsight. If there was even a chance things could have turned as bad as people were screeching, there is literally nobody who would have chosen to push forward with doing little or nothing in its face.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:10 pm to Big Scrub TX
I don’t think Trump did much wrong.
The CDC was unprepared and too bureaucratic. They fricked him, not intentionally, but they did.
There are many agencies and departments of the government that become complacent over time.
The CDC was unprepared and too bureaucratic. They fricked him, not intentionally, but they did.
There are many agencies and departments of the government that become complacent over time.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:10 pm to Big Scrub TX
Everyone was fine shutting down for a while and I think gather information. The early depictions from China made this thing seem like Ebola, and the world was adopting shutdown strategies. Then you had Italy.
Now, in hindsight, any decision is a no win. I can guarantee you if Trump did as you suggest he would be crucified even worse.
Now, in hindsight, any decision is a no win. I can guarantee you if Trump did as you suggest he would be crucified even worse.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:11 pm to bird35
coordination of masks, equipment and outfits sorely lacking. price gouging, states bidding against each other and meddlesome favoritism all mar the potus legacy.
how about that vaccine?
how about using antibodies?
still selling his malaria drug and its long list of neurological side effects.
incompetent and a scammer.
as if by a miracle.
how about that vaccine?
how about using antibodies?
still selling his malaria drug and its long list of neurological side effects.
incompetent and a scammer.
as if by a miracle.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:12 pm to CelticDog
quote:
coordination of masks, equipment and outfits sorely lacking. price gouging, states bidding against each other and meddlesome favoritism all mar the potus legacy.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:12 pm to CelticDog
quote:
CelticDog
Frail old man
Do you need Trump to wipe your arse ?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:12 pm to Big Scrub TX
I’m team Trump out of all the options available but I agree with your first two points. I think the downvotes are unmerited.
Trump wasn’t lying but he was wrong about downplaying the virus. He was working off of bad data from WHO and from China. Given his correct distrust of globalist entities as well as the chicoms he shouldn’t have trusted their data, but what can you do when there aren’t sirens going off
Second he never should have given Birx or Fauci that much say in how much and fast we shut down.
They both have their issues but I think they were working on the premise of making sure Americans survived, but just heeding their words without taking into account the economic impact was folly.
I don’t think anybody would have done better and sure as hell think Hillary would have grown a Hitler stache before the first body reached room temperature.
Trump wasn’t lying but he was wrong about downplaying the virus. He was working off of bad data from WHO and from China. Given his correct distrust of globalist entities as well as the chicoms he shouldn’t have trusted their data, but what can you do when there aren’t sirens going off
Second he never should have given Birx or Fauci that much say in how much and fast we shut down.
They both have their issues but I think they were working on the premise of making sure Americans survived, but just heeding their words without taking into account the economic impact was folly.
I don’t think anybody would have done better and sure as hell think Hillary would have grown a Hitler stache before the first body reached room temperature.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:13 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Yes and no. The Imperial College frickstick deserves plenty of blame (as well as an overly credulous media). But Trump did not have to start out by utterly and completely downplaying it. There's a midway point somewhere in there that makes sense.
If there was even a chance things could have turned as bad as people were screeching, there is literally nobody who would have chosen to push forward with doing little or nothing in its face.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:13 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Trump should have - earlier on - not downplayed the significance of the virus. He should have instead adopted a Churchillian "we will have to suck it up and fight through stance". It's tough, but we'll face it head on, together.
You are claiming there was ample warning of the coming pandemic by the latter part of 2019 and Trump was too slow to respond which has caused many preventable CV 19 infections and deaths. What if Trump had acted as the leftists sycophants insist he should have.
Based upon the predictions of a group of federal health scientists who warned of a coming pandemic from China He could have issued an executive order effective January 1, 2020 :
No events with crowds over 50 people are to be held: No national championship game, no NFL playoffs, no Super Bowl, college basketball season suspended, NBA and NHL seasons suspended,
Mardi Gras is cancelled.
No MLK events honoring Dr. King and Black History Month is not celebrated.
Colleges may not begin spring semester classes, all high school and lower grades cannot open,only essential business as determined by the federal government may operative.
The Defense Deployment Act is activated and Trump requires random businesses to suspend their usual production and make ventilators and face masks for the coming pandemic.
Effective January 15 all flights from foreign countries are suspended. Any Americans seeking to return to the United States must make arrangements by January 15.
Impeachment hearings against him could not be held as Congress could not convene.
The Supreme Court and all federal courts must suspend proceedings by January 15.
Multiple litigation would have been filed in anti Trump venues which demanded injunctions to stop this unprecedented power grab by a United States president
The left wing media would have gone into total meltdown. Trump would have been called :
A dictator.
An isolationist
A nationalist
A racist
A xenophobe
An obstructionist of justice
Even some of his strongest supporters would have turned on him.
Today the media would be excoriating him for over reacting to the pandemic which never occurred.
They would be lambasting him for the huge stockpile of unused ventilators and face masks., while praising Obama for having the fiscal responsibility to not over react and build up such an absurd amount of supplies.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:17 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
But Trump did not have to start out by utterly and completely downplaying it. There's a midway point somewhere in there that makes sense.
The thing is, I think that was his “gamble.” After that, he wasn’t willing to roll the dice again against the “experts:”
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:20 pm to Big Scrub TX
I think Trump was right when he downplayed the significance of the virus(he still knows he was right). He only realized that he had to start acting irrational and shut things down because the narrative being concocted couldn’t be beaten. He realized that he had to play along and beat them at their own game to win. You can’t reason with a population who’s been hoodwinked into thinking this is the new Black Plague. It would have been political suicide had he done nothing. Instead he went above and beyond and can now use the experts phony numbers to claim he saved 2 million lives.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:24 pm to oilattorney4lsu
quote:
I don’t think Trump did much wrong.
The CDC was unprepared and too bureaucratic. They fricked him, not intentionally, but they did.
There are many agencies and departments of the government that become complacent over time.
People have shifted the blame to Trump for the CDC. Cleaning house.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:32 pm to Big Scrub TX
He downplayed and dismissed it early and then likely overreacted late. He’s been pretty bad
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:36 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:So did every major politician in America and even most disease specialists.
He downplayed and dismissed it early
Stop committing hindsight bias.
Knowing what we knew at the time, it would have been criminally insane to shut down travel/order lockdowns in early and mid February.
He would have been removed from office under 25ht amendment.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:40 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
So did every major politician in America
Wow what a high bar you are setting for him
quote:
Stop committing hindsight bias.
I know plenty of people, including myself, that were furious all throughout February about how flat footed we were. So no this isn’t hindsight bias.
quote:
He would have been removed from office under 25ht amendment.
Stop being dramatic.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:43 pm to bird35
quote:
In hindsight, yes.
But at the time we did not know what we were dealing with.
We did see horrible things from a overwhelmed Italian heathcare system and we did not know where this was going.
I don't blame him for shutting down, but now we know the virus is highly contagious but has a low mortality rate it is time to reopen.
This and the fact that there was never a "goal". What were we trying to accomplish with the shut down? Was the goal to 'not overwhelm the healthcare system'? Or was the goal some kind of 'total eradication'? When the goal was never set in place we ended up in this hospitals are empty limbo that is still going on.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:49 pm to oilattorney4lsu
quote:the problem Trump has with this is that his PERSONAL response was disjointed and chaotic. I don't really think anyone could say Trump provided clear, steady leadership and direction.
don’t think Trump did much wrong
On the contrary, his policy didn't match his twitter and banter at all.. Which has been common. I think Trump is in trouble in November.
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