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Started By
Message
re: Video of relieved Captain, Brett Crozier, disembarking the USS Roosevelt
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:14 am to LSUFanHouston
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:14 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
So the civilian SecNav removes an O-6 from command, completely bypassing the admirals. How is that part of the chain of command?
lol wut
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:15 am to DOPEman
quote:
I think state actors such as China are probably a little more tuned in to things like this than you TigerFanInSouthland
Ok well he was making it seem like we had all been discussing it ad nauseam for weeks when that simply isn’t the case.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:16 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
It’s not as simple as that. He sent an email about the operational status of his command to 30-40 people outside his chain of command via unsecured email.
Regardless of any humanitarian concerns or motivations he had for those under his command the fact he did this, namely openly broadcast the operational status of his command, demands he lose that command.
As it is, you're right. I'm more concerned with the culture within our Military that leads to a Commander having to resort to something like this, knowing it would it have repercussions, to force the Navy to action. I have a hard time believing that this was not at least attempted to be handled through the proper channels first. You don't get handed the keys to an aircraft carrier if your first reaction is the nuclear option. I don't think Captain Crozier woke up March 30th and just tossed his military bearing overboard for the frick of it.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:20 am to DOPEman
Reminds me of the scene at the end of Behind Enemy Lines when Gene Hackman’s character was forced to give up his command for protecting his men.
That’s how you go out like a Gangster. Respect.
Spare me the hypothetical/vulnerability of exposing the fleet to the enemy. He had enough intel at that level to know we were know where close to being attacked.
That’s how you go out like a Gangster. Respect.
Spare me the hypothetical/vulnerability of exposing the fleet to the enemy. He had enough intel at that level to know we were know where close to being attacked.
This post was edited on 4/3/20 at 11:22 am
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:20 am to DOPEman
quote:
I'm more concerned with the culture within our Military that leads to a Commander having to resort to something like this,
There’s the rub of the issue. Did he actually have to resort to doing this? Or was this a case of him panicking? These are questions I i still have.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:21 am to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Ok well he was making it seem like we had all been discussing it ad nauseam for weeks when that simply isn’t the case.
He said publicly known, as in if you were inclined to know you could have found the information out. It wasn't a big deal until this Captain pens the memo and gets canned and then you have all these people running around screaming OPSEC
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:21 am to DOPEman
quote:
Hats off to you Captain Crozier and the other leaders in the Military like you.
Lauding commanders that leak opsec to the media?
I am not sure that's what you want
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:30 am to Scruffy
quote:
He likely acted with the best of intentions and Scruffy applauds that, but the military likely does not want the concept of “running to the press” to become something that is acceptable.
I think it says something that he was relieved of his command, but not of his rank.
He felt he had to do something, and probably has the lifetime respect of his men for doing so.
But sometimes, a "player's coach" isn't the best coach, and maybe the same applies here?
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:33 am to Picayuner
quote:
HOWEVER, there is a chain of command and we don't expect our leaders to panic and broadcast info to every tom, dick, and harry
How do you know he didn't use his chain of command? Also, once the first 3 Sailors were known to be sick, the cat was out of the bag, it's no different than the cruise ship situation.
"Our enemies don't need to know how our defense is manned at any given time"
Once the ship pulled in to Guam, everybody in the world that matters knew that carrier wasn't in service
quote:
This info should have been internally handled
How do you know it wasn't? I'm pretty certain if a Navy captain went to the length of writing the letter he did, he didn't get the response he was hoping for from his chain of command. I've been in the Navy 22 years, long enough to know the Navy fricks up too, from PC culture to pushing SJW social experiments onto the military, to pushing the wrong type of trainings, etc.
This captain did what he thought was right, once the letter ended up with the media he was going to get fired no doubt. In my 22 years I've seen MANY XO's, CO's SEL's get fired for doing a lot worse.
People are acting like we are at war and that carriers can hide underwater like a submarine. Any time a ship pulls into port when it's supposed to be at sea readiness is hampered. Not any other time has this happened because of a virus so those people trying to compare this to something else, don't know what they're talking about. This isn't someone leaking the whereabouts of a seal Team in the middle of an Op.
We have 12 carriers, just like we always do in the military we adapt and someone else will pick up the slack and weeks from now no one will give a shite about any of this. In the meantime, lives were probably saved and that's what the CO cared about.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:36 am to udtiger
I personally think in this case OPSEC is low hanging fruit.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:37 am to DOPEman
quote:
I personally think in this case OPSEC is low hanging fruit.
China's Navy is already taking advantage of this
for readiness reasons the military is not reporting positive cases anymore.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:42 am to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
China's Navy is already taking advantage of this
Can you provide concrete examples of this? If you can that's pretty poor OPSEC on China's part.
quote:
readiness
There it is. Hope it doesn't affect our lethality too.
Foreign intelligence services learned nothing they didn't already know from that email.
ETA: I'm not taking a shot at you fwiw, I know from personal real world experience the consequences of poor OPSEC. I just think that this is a unique situation and if we're looking at it from a threat based methodology COVID-19 is the pressing issue. Sometimes a tactical pause is necessary.
This post was edited on 4/3/20 at 11:56 am
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:44 am to Darth_Vader
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/2/21 at 7:36 am
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:45 am to fr33manator
quote:He was removed for pointing out how inept the Trump Administration is.
Wasn’t he removed for leaking information to the press?
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:47 am to MLU
quote:
He was removed for pointing out how inept the government is
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:49 am to DOPEman
quote:
quote:
this shows how truly screwed this country is and how we’d be fricked if we ever had to fight a true global total war again.
You’re probably right but for the totally opposite reason you think
There's a reason Modly is the 'Acting' SecNav. (I'm agreeing with DOPEman, to make it clear).
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:50 am to Darth_Vader
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/2/21 at 7:32 am
Posted on 4/3/20 at 11:56 am to fr33manator
quote:
Legit curious. In your opinion, what is then?
If we are talking about a carrier group that is one discussion, but if it is just the carrier itself I would say an SSBN (boomer) is the most potent of any single entity.
Posted on 4/3/20 at 12:08 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Rod from God
Rods from God are just theoretical at this point. While they have benefits over nuclear weapons they are difficult to implement and as mentioned deploying them would bring a whole host of geopolitical issues to the US's doorstep.
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