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Jam Bands - I just don’t f*cking get it
Posted on 2/17/20 at 6:48 am
Posted on 2/17/20 at 6:48 am
I was suggested a cover of “The Harder They Come” by Jerry Garcia and Merl Saunders on Spotify through my discover playlist. Started listening to the song and it was pretty damn good, then I realized it was going on for WAY too long. Turns out it’s a frickin 19 minute long cover with a bunch of bullshite dragging on forever, cause you know that’s fun....what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
21
Posted on 2/17/20 at 7:29 am to JumpingTheShark
It's pretty interesting that jam songs go on too long and you immediately feel it when it over stays it's welcome.
Yet Tool puts out a record with not one song under 10 minutes and by the time the song is over it feels like the length of a normal song. Black magic frickery there.
Yet Tool puts out a record with not one song under 10 minutes and by the time the song is over it feels like the length of a normal song. Black magic frickery there.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 7:42 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
let’s say for a moment that someone answers this question and you say, “oh, that makes sense”
but you still don’t like the song.
what have you accomplished?
different people like different things, but you already know that
Posted on 2/17/20 at 7:53 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
It's the drugs.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 8:46 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
Turns out it’s a frickin 19 minute long cover with a bunch of bullshite dragging on forever, cause you know that’s fun....what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
There is no appeal for me. After a certain point ear fatigue sets in. I also have no desire to sit and listen to 2 or 3 guys jerk off for 20 minutes with uninspired, extended guitar solos.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 9:20 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:I enjoy watching my favorite musicians create and improvise something new and unique to each show when I go see a live performance. But I understand it’s not for everyone and many can find it boring much like I would find going to a show that sounds exactly like an album boring.
what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 9:44 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
I was suggested a cover of “The Harder They Come” by Jerry Garcia and Merl Saunders on Spotify through my discover playlist. Started listening to the song and it was pretty damn good, then I realized it was going on for WAY too long. Turns out it’s a frickin 19 minute long cover with a bunch of bull shite dragging on forever, cause you know that’s fun....what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
It kind of just depends on what you are listening to. In addition, most songs don't go on for 20 minutes even when looking at Grateful Dead and Phish. Also worth noting is that there are a lot of shitty jambands. I would also tend to agree that the 20 minute version of a 5 minute song with a jam that is just a couple people playing back and forth on each others guitar for 15 minutes can be pretty excessive.
Sometimes the lengthy songs / jams don't go anywhere, other times they capture some improvisational magic where you get to hear them move through different themes which aren't part of any song but their own unique thing. When it does work it is pretty impressive stuff where they go through multiple sections and themes of improvisation and create cohesive and interesting jams all without any sort of rehearsing or plan going in.
But a 6 minute composition with a 6 / 7 minute jam that has interplay between members and builds to a great peak or finish is great to my ears. In the same way those 20 minute jams where 10 - 15 minutes are awesome improv is what you go for.
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 9:45 am
Posted on 2/17/20 at 9:44 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
The appeal is for the musicians. They sometimes forget that people are actually trying to listen to them.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 10:03 am to JumpingTheShark
quote:
what is the appeal of long drawn out jam songs?
Ask John Coltrane.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 10:36 am to JumpingTheShark
I don’t enjoy jam bands but I don’t mind long songs if they aren’t the same thing over and over. See Tool comment above.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 10:57 am to JumpingTheShark
I used to feel the same way as you, but I've somehow learned to appreciate jam bands more as I've aged, which seems to be the opposite trajectory. I've always really liked jazz improvisation and listening to the backbone of a song and how it can morph and come back together from multiple angles. One of the transitional bands for me was Medeski, Martin, and Wood. Once I gave jam the same listening treatment, it made it a lot more enjoyable.
Yeah, there's a lot of bad cliche jam music out there, and I sometimes find myself having to suffer through a bad one to get to the good one, but I guess that's how it goes. The good jams make the bad ones worth it, imo - plus it's 2020, and it turns out we have the technology to skip songs and bands.
FTR, I'm not a frequent drug user outside of alcohol and the occasional thc edible.
Yeah, there's a lot of bad cliche jam music out there, and I sometimes find myself having to suffer through a bad one to get to the good one, but I guess that's how it goes. The good jams make the bad ones worth it, imo - plus it's 2020, and it turns out we have the technology to skip songs and bands.
FTR, I'm not a frequent drug user outside of alcohol and the occasional thc edible.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 1:05 pm to JumpingTheShark
Improvisational music isnt for everyone.
I love jazz and some jambands.
Going to a show and hearing musicians improvise and stretch songs out and create new music on the spot is exciting to me.
Whats the point of going to a show and watching the performers play the song exactly as it is on the album?
I love jazz and some jambands.
Going to a show and hearing musicians improvise and stretch songs out and create new music on the spot is exciting to me.
Whats the point of going to a show and watching the performers play the song exactly as it is on the album?
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:14 pm to JumpingTheShark
That's what drugs are for. You can't soberly get through a jam band show for 3-4 hours.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:25 pm to JumpingTheShark
I have the exact opposite outlook- today's bands play most of their songs live exactly like the album...nothing else, no improvisation. I attended live shows starting in the early 70's where we expected long jams or improvisations! To me, shows are boring today, no musicianship, I want to see a band extend a song and give the audience something else to sink their teeth into!
Posted on 2/17/20 at 2:26 pm to JumpingTheShark
just curious of your opinion on the ABB 22-minute long "Whipping Post" from The Fillmore East. IMO, improvisational jams can take you to some very deep places. Almost "zen like" where you are one with the music and enjoying the ride.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 5:22 pm to JumpingTheShark
As a fan of jam, I'd be willing to admit that typically after several minutes into a 19 minute Jerry Jam, I'm ready to push the next button. However, it can be used as a vehicle for transportation into a different state of mind.
Length can probably be attributed to musicians getting into a rhythm or jam or getting on a roll and they cant find a way out, so they just keep playing until they find a stop.
IMO the appeal of a good jam or jam band is when several instruments can come together to form one sound. Kind of a 'whole greater than sum of its parts' type scenario. A good jam band plays off each other, in a way that they speak to each other through their instruments. It's like watching a well oiled sports team run plays and know exactly where their teammate is going to be at that given moment. Then the team/band starts playing the listener by throwing in twists and turns and peaks and valleys. It's a ride. The best jam bands seem to turn the crowd into an instrument itself in a way. Some people are willing to relinquish control and allow the hook to be set, others stand back and let bias and egos get in the way and it's just not for them.
Length can probably be attributed to musicians getting into a rhythm or jam or getting on a roll and they cant find a way out, so they just keep playing until they find a stop.
IMO the appeal of a good jam or jam band is when several instruments can come together to form one sound. Kind of a 'whole greater than sum of its parts' type scenario. A good jam band plays off each other, in a way that they speak to each other through their instruments. It's like watching a well oiled sports team run plays and know exactly where their teammate is going to be at that given moment. Then the team/band starts playing the listener by throwing in twists and turns and peaks and valleys. It's a ride. The best jam bands seem to turn the crowd into an instrument itself in a way. Some people are willing to relinquish control and allow the hook to be set, others stand back and let bias and egos get in the way and it's just not for them.
This post was edited on 2/17/20 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 2/17/20 at 6:27 pm to JumpingTheShark
Phish Destroys America
Compilation from Phish's fall 1997 tour. If you dont get down to any of this there's not much helpin ya like 'jam bands.' This is pretty much peak jam band imo
Compilation from Phish's fall 1997 tour. If you dont get down to any of this there's not much helpin ya like 'jam bands.' This is pretty much peak jam band imo
Posted on 2/17/20 at 6:52 pm to JumpingTheShark
A few thoughts on this thread overall:
This one is obvious, but everyone has different tastes. Sometimes a genre just isn't for you. I personally like GD, Phish, etc., but completely understand that a lot of people don't. I do think a lot of people don't give jam bands a real chance because of the stigma surrounding the scene.
There are a lot of bad jam bands. Judging a whole genre on a few random listens is foolish.
Very few of the songs are actually 20 mins long, as others have said.
Like others have said, the appeal to me comes from watching the band improvise on the fly and try stuff no one ever has before. Sometimes it doesn't fit together right, the songs get aimless, and then all of sudden it all gels in a way that I find exhilarating. I get that that slow and inconsistent build isn't for everybody, but I like it.
I don't see how anyone can say Grateful Dead songs all sound the same. That's a bad opinion.
This one is obvious, but everyone has different tastes. Sometimes a genre just isn't for you. I personally like GD, Phish, etc., but completely understand that a lot of people don't. I do think a lot of people don't give jam bands a real chance because of the stigma surrounding the scene.
There are a lot of bad jam bands. Judging a whole genre on a few random listens is foolish.
Very few of the songs are actually 20 mins long, as others have said.
Like others have said, the appeal to me comes from watching the band improvise on the fly and try stuff no one ever has before. Sometimes it doesn't fit together right, the songs get aimless, and then all of sudden it all gels in a way that I find exhilarating. I get that that slow and inconsistent build isn't for everybody, but I like it.
I don't see how anyone can say Grateful Dead songs all sound the same. That's a bad opinion.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 8:17 pm to JumpingTheShark
I just listened to this song as I’m very familiar with Jerry and Merle. I have a half dozen of their live CD’s and the Keystone Berkeley shows are superb since many were recorded by Betty Cantor-Jackson. a.k.a. “Betty Boards” if you’re into Grateful Dead live recordings. I think this Jimmy Cliff classic song and “jam” went right over your head. If you have an ear for music, you can clearly make out the improvisations between a quintet of musicians and their respective instruments.
The first 4 minutes and the last 4 minutes (8 total) is Jerry singing the lyrics to one of his favorite songs. There is an 11 minute instrumental jam where you can clearly hear Jerry playing Wolf (guitar), followed by Merle on his famous Hammond B3, then John Kahn on Bass, Bill Kreutzmann on drums, and an amazing set of lungs by Martin Fierro on saxophone. Each musician jams for 1-2 minutes and then you can hear each musician teasing and playing off each other. Then all 5 play together for 1-2 minutes before Jerry picks back up on the vocals.
If you’re into the JGB and Merle from the 70’s, this song is epic. I understand not everyone likes Jerry or the GD. Just like not everyone likes country, reggae, classical, and/or rap music.
The first 4 minutes and the last 4 minutes (8 total) is Jerry singing the lyrics to one of his favorite songs. There is an 11 minute instrumental jam where you can clearly hear Jerry playing Wolf (guitar), followed by Merle on his famous Hammond B3, then John Kahn on Bass, Bill Kreutzmann on drums, and an amazing set of lungs by Martin Fierro on saxophone. Each musician jams for 1-2 minutes and then you can hear each musician teasing and playing off each other. Then all 5 play together for 1-2 minutes before Jerry picks back up on the vocals.
If you’re into the JGB and Merle from the 70’s, this song is epic. I understand not everyone likes Jerry or the GD. Just like not everyone likes country, reggae, classical, and/or rap music.
Posted on 2/17/20 at 11:18 pm to JumpingTheShark
Listen to the Disco biscuits or perpetual groove
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