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Salon: "1917" has one major flaw - it's irresponsibly nationalistic

Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:49 am
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468087 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:49 am
Holy shite

quote:

Yet as I watched it, I felt very uneasy — not for aesthetic reasons, but for moral ones. “1917,” as its title indicates for the historically well-informed, is a World War I picture. Any film set during that conflict has a responsibility to account for the horrors of nationalism, much as a film that takes place during the Civil War must deal with slavery, and one that occurs during World War II must acknowledge fascism.


quote:

Since all of the major parties in World War I were nationalist, a movie like "1917" must acknowledge the inherent ambiguity of the conflict. Even if we are only being told a microcosmic story about two soldiers trying to survive a dangerous mission, we should still understand the larger tapestry in which those characters are mere threads. To do otherwise is to make war seem impersonal, like a natural disaster or a plague, rather than as an affliction caused by human beings — and for which people should be held accountable.


if you want to see how the postmodern, "nuanced" rhetoric works, read that paragraph above

you cannot tell a story. you must present the totality of issues and ideas surrounding that point in history, tearing down the positive ideals of any sort of Western values. you replace those ideas with ambiguous conflict and resolutions (both to make the postmodernist feel intelligent/superior and to allow subjective interpretation attacking Western values)

quote:

There is much moral accountability to go around in World War I. As historian Lawrence Rosenthal wrote, the Great Powers that started World War I did so because of “. . . a new and aggressive nationalism, different from its predecessors, [that] engaged the fierce us-them group emotions – loyalty inwards, aggression outwards – that characterise human relations at simpler sociological levels, like the family or the tribe.” It was this uniquely aggressive form of nationalism that drove Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip – who self-identified as a Yugoslav nationalist – to assassinate the Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in 1914, thereby starting World War I.


look at how warped his ideology has become with promoting these ideas. he's defending imperialism and subjugation of native people while attacking the "nationalist" response (trying to fight for the freedom of those subjugated natives). seriously what the frick?

oh yeah, and

quote:

It was a similar breed of nationalism that forged the numerous European alliances of the time and allowed major world leaders, with the full might of the global empires that they commanded, to decide that they were both obligated to fight each other . . . and would profit, geopolitically and financially, from doing so.

nothing says "nationalism" like "forged alliances" with other nations
Posted by Powerman
Member since Jan 2004
170795 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:51 am to
The only way that commentary could have been worse is if it was from Vox
Posted by Saint Alfonzo
Member since Jan 2019
28515 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:51 am to
Your first mistake was reading Salon.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:51 am to
Just tell me whether it's worth the eight bucks to see it.

ETA. Thanks for the replies, although my post was in fact directed at the author quoted in the OP.
This post was edited on 1/12/20 at 1:40 pm
Posted by OldHickory
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2012
10784 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:55 am to
I. Love. My. Country!
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138187 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:55 am to
These people could depress a bride on her wedding day
Posted by bluestem75
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2007
4967 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:56 am to
The problem with the article isn’t that it points out that rampant European tribalism/nationalism caused WWI. On that count, he’s right.

It’s that he irrationally ties it to Trump. The article is just more TDS. That’s all.

Comparing WWI nationalism to our current state of political tribalism would be more appropriate. Or being responsible enough to talk about how that tribalism brought the totalitarian German Nazi and Russian Communist regimes would be more responsible.

But the writer is a totalitarian. And too blinded by his political rage to make that connection.
Posted by Y.A. Tittle
Member since Sep 2003
109893 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:57 am to
It's wrong to try to artistically capture the feel of a certain era if it does not comport to our idealistic view of what we think should be the feel of our own era.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138187 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 9:59 am to
Can you imagine how long a movie would have to be in order to capture the plot as well as all the nuances of international early 20th century diplomacy? God forbid we just have a movie about a dude trying to save his brother in a war.
Posted by Caplewood
Atlanta
Member since Jun 2010
39422 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:05 am to


I would post some of his other articles but I would probably get banned
Posted by BeeFense5
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
42204 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:07 am to
quote:

Can you imagine how long a movie would have to be in order to capture the plot as well as all the nuances of international early 20th century diplomacy?


The writer isn't even saying that he wants a movie like that. He just wants a movie that says Orange man bad no matter the nuance surrounding the situation.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:07 am to
I can't decide which is more punch-worthy; his glasses or his goatee.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83294 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:08 am to
The face of a man who has watched another man’s penis enter his wife.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:08 am to
quote:

The face of a man who has watched another man’s penis enter his mouth.


FIFY
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138187 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:09 am to
Didn't read the article, but was he upset about the lack of people of color in the movie as well?
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
468087 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:11 am to
quote:

God forbid we just have a movie about a dude trying to save his brother in a war

The whole point of the way this movie is presented is to solely focus on the spectacle of the battlefield of WWI in one area of the conflict. It's "one shot" for Christ's sake.

Why would politics have any place in this movie?
Posted by BeeFense5
Kenner
Member since Jul 2010
42204 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:12 am to
quote:

Now we live in a world where America is on the brink of war with Iran, where right-wing nationalists in this country are terrorizing racial minorities in the name of being "pro-America," and in which the talk of national borders is used to justify ripping apart families because they don’t belong to our “nation.” Lest there be any doubt that Trumpism is a nationalist ideology, Trump himself appeared before the United Nations in September and declared that “the free world must embrace its national foundations. It must not attempt to erase them or replace them."


quote:

He added, “Wise leaders always put the good of their own people and their own country first. The future does not belong to globalists. The future belongs to patriots.”

That rhetoric motivated World War I just as much as it drives Trumpism today. As such, rewarding “1917” with awards and acclaim — at least acclaim that ignores its problematic politics in order to myopically focus on its abstract artistic merits — implicitly validates a philosophy that our world desperately, desperately needs to delegitimize.


I can't lol harder at this
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
58040 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:12 am to
quote:

Since all of the major parties in World War I were nationalist, a movie like "1917" must acknowledge the inherent ambiguity of the conflict.


Inherent ambiguity? What the frick is ambiguous about Ferdinand being assassinated? What's ambiguous about the dominos this caused to fall?

The author's stance only works for those who either suffer from the inability to whittle down extraneous material (giving even minor things the same weight as major events) or are so desirous for the world to operate as they think it should that they purposely try to alter history in their re-telling.
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83294 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:13 am to
quote:

Why would politics have any place in this movie?


Bc Drumpf
Posted by Sponge
Member since Nov 2018
4668 posts
Posted on 1/12/20 at 10:14 am to
quote:

Yet as I watched it, I felt very uneasy

Good

I take pleasure in the fact that miserable people like this who go through life seeing EVERYTHING through a political lens are unable to enjoy great stories like the rest of us.
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