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re: If one of the Democratic Candidates becomes President, what to do with your money?
Posted on 6/30/19 at 7:03 pm to rotrain
Posted on 6/30/19 at 7:03 pm to rotrain
quote:
No one is coming for your 401k.
Soooo we should completely ignore that prominent politicians made noise along those lines repeatedly? That behind the scenes I bet people are looking forward to using the fact that American's aren't saving as much as they should as the next crisis needing social security overhaul?
I mean they already have made well off families as greedy hoarders to justify tax increases? Or are we will pretending a household making 250k a year is still rich?
While im not worried about someone confiscating a 401k, I fully expect to be deemed illegible for SS for as long as I have a meaningful (>1year) balance. And I wouldn't discount having some sort of blanket, investment proceeds tax that even applies to a Roth.
2
Posted on 6/30/19 at 7:27 pm to naturegator83
quote:
But I do have enough to get screwed over with higher taxes
No you don't.
Posted on 6/30/19 at 7:54 pm to Volvagia
There is a certain Establishment investment class arrogance/paralysis that believes that if enough people are in the market, that it makes the market bullet proof from the Kleptocracy. Well imagine an America with 10x the unfunded liabilities we have now, after a generation of Socialist fear mongering aimed at capitalism and wealth creation. It absolutely could happen. AOC is just the tip of this spear, there will be millions more like her in the decades to come. And they are insatiable and wholly ignorant.
Posted on 6/30/19 at 7:56 pm to Lsupimp
Take this to the Political Board.
This post was edited on 6/30/19 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 6/30/19 at 8:06 pm to lynxcat
I am amused that you are so thin-skinned that you don't think one of the two major American political party completely jumping the Socialism shark is not relevant to the Money board. It's actually hard to think of something more relevant. And I don't know who your advisor is, but the political/taxation climate has ALWAYS been a part of all of my investment strategy.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 8:49 am to Lsupimp
quote:
I am amused that you are so thin-skinned that you don't think one of the two major American political party completely jumping the Socialism shark is not relevant to the Money board.
I watched most of both debates last week, and there were only a handful of the 20 candidates that came out in full favor of policies that could deemed socialist policies.
And the current leader in most polls, Joe Biden, was NOT one of those handful. So the Dem party completely jumping the Socialism shark is a bit off the mark.
Besides, the Republican party has been fear mongering about socialism for over 50 years now. Full fledged socialism is not being implemented in this country any time soon - capitalism is too entrenched for that to happen. We will likely see more socialistic policies in the coming years though.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 8:58 am to Volvagia
quote:Most that I know who aren't near retirement age are not counting on SS existing when they retire anyway.
While im not worried about someone confiscating a 401k, I fully expect to be deemed illegible for SS for as long as I have a meaningful (>1year) balance. And I wouldn't discount having some sort of blanket, investment proceeds tax that even applies to a Roth.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 9:27 am to KamaCausey_LSU
quote:
Most that I know who aren't near retirement age are not counting on SS existing when they retire anyway.
SS confiscation is 'already priced in' (as our trading experts love to say) for anyone under the age of ~45.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:09 am to KamaCausey_LSU
quote:
Most that I know who aren't near retirement age are not counting on SS existing when they retire anyway.
Certainly true for most ppl in GenX. We entered the work force hearing that the SS trust would dry up long before we'd see a dime of our contributions, so the people in my age bracket aren't planning on it as a part of retirement.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:30 am to hungryone
I think this go around I am going to have to take a hard look. I do expect jobs will be lost and there will be a significant drop in stock prices for most of what I am currently invested in. I honestly hope the gold price drops and I can just invest in it for the short term. I will probably stick with bonds and then carefully select stocks that dropped when Trump was elected (government funded programs/companies).
Selfishly, I wouldn't mind a large drop and a reinvest opportunity when a GOP member is elected in 2024. It would line up just about right with my retirement.
Selfishly, I wouldn't mind a large drop and a reinvest opportunity when a GOP member is elected in 2024. It would line up just about right with my retirement.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:40 am to naturegator83
quote:
If one of the Democratic Candidates becomes President, what to do with your money?
Probably gonna have to give more of it to the government I would imagine
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:41 am to hungryone
quote:
Certainly true for most ppl in GenX. We entered the work force hearing that the SS trust would dry up long before we'd see a dime of our contributions, so the people in my age bracket aren't planning on it as a part of retirement.
I’m an FA and I can tell you that this is patently false
Posted on 7/1/19 at 10:42 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
Someone who makes $50k a year is exactly the type of person who needs social programs. You ARE the broke person they are trying to help.
You are too busy looking down on others assuming that they are coming for you, that you dont realize that you've been playing a rigged game against the top 1%.
You are too busy looking down on others assuming that they are coming for you, that you dont realize that you've been playing a rigged game against the top 1%.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:04 am to 100851
What is this rigged game nonsense?
Standard of living is constantly improving for everyone in US society. People just have a platform via social media to complain more than ever before.
Standard of living is constantly improving for everyone in US society. People just have a platform via social media to complain more than ever before.
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 11:05 am
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:06 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
So, is the clarification that the financially literate younger generations do not expect SS?
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:10 am to lynxcat
quote:
financially literate younger generations
Literate or illiterate? They aren't crying for student debt forgiveness because they are literate.
Personally I think anyone that is relying on SS for retirement is a fool, literate or illiterate. I can understand the older generation that didn't have access to things like we do not to make investing and putting money away easier. But if you aren't putting money away these days, even if it is just a little, you have no one to blame but yourself.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:20 am to lynxcat
quote:
So, is the clarification that the financially literate younger generations do not expect SS?
Gen X is counting on SS as much/more than any other generation
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:24 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
While I agree that relying solely on SS for retirement is foolish, at best, I have little concern there will be no money for anyone that has paid into it. It's not that difficult for the US government to fully fund it, there's just not much will to do so. Were it to get to a catastrophic scenario, it would be political suicide to not act on it, or to vote against diverting money from somewhere else to shore it up.
In short, there will be SS upon retirement for anyone that has paid into it.
In short, there will be SS upon retirement for anyone that has paid into it.
Posted on 7/1/19 at 11:52 am to naturegator83
quote:
I'm really worried that one of the first things they'll go after are 401k's and other retirement accounts
well we already pay income taxes on withdrawals, do you think confiscating the whole damn thing is an option for them? (For Bernie, I'd say yes)
Posted on 7/1/19 at 12:37 pm to naturegator83
Les Miles has lost control of the Money Board. Seriously, we usually have good honest discussions but this one seems to have gone off the rails.
Look, money management involves the assessment of risk, and then taking measures to counteract that risk. The risk of the US turning socialist is extremely low. It's greater than zero, but it's real close.
Just because a few politicians are running their mouths, doesn't mean they will get anywhere close to being able to make those decisions. Our capitalist system is not perfect, and the younger people are probably suffering from those imperfections moreso than other generations. But, by no means is socialism a realistic or acceptable alternative.
If you want to look at something, look at the Senate. The last time the Dems got to 60 votes, we got ACA and the related taxes, and they haven't sniffed 60 votes since.
I DO think it is reasonable to consider that if the Dems had the presidency, Senate, and House, that a return to the Clinton-era tax policies is possible. That means somewhat higher marginal rates, and more people getting hit with the estate tax, but it also means something else that doesn't get a lot of play. We didn't get "qualified dividends" until Bush the younger took over. That was a MASSIVE tax cut for the wealthy, who tend to get a higher percentage of their income from investments that pay out dividends as opposed to the general public.
In any event, I don't see tax rates getting much, if any, lower. So, a strategy to maximize Roth contributions makes a lot of sense in any environment, but it makes extra sense if you think rates are going up.
I would plan as if social security won't exist, and if your net worth gets north of a million, as you get older, I would think about estate planning. A 20 million dollar joint exemption has made a lot of estate planning unnecessary, but that could come back. In fact, I would say a high estate tax is probably the most likely outcome of future Democrat tax policy.
I could see a transaction tax at some point. But all of the more crazy stuff - stealing investment accounts, etc, won't likely ever happen. Never say never, but I wouldn't plan for that.
Look, money management involves the assessment of risk, and then taking measures to counteract that risk. The risk of the US turning socialist is extremely low. It's greater than zero, but it's real close.
Just because a few politicians are running their mouths, doesn't mean they will get anywhere close to being able to make those decisions. Our capitalist system is not perfect, and the younger people are probably suffering from those imperfections moreso than other generations. But, by no means is socialism a realistic or acceptable alternative.
If you want to look at something, look at the Senate. The last time the Dems got to 60 votes, we got ACA and the related taxes, and they haven't sniffed 60 votes since.
I DO think it is reasonable to consider that if the Dems had the presidency, Senate, and House, that a return to the Clinton-era tax policies is possible. That means somewhat higher marginal rates, and more people getting hit with the estate tax, but it also means something else that doesn't get a lot of play. We didn't get "qualified dividends" until Bush the younger took over. That was a MASSIVE tax cut for the wealthy, who tend to get a higher percentage of their income from investments that pay out dividends as opposed to the general public.
In any event, I don't see tax rates getting much, if any, lower. So, a strategy to maximize Roth contributions makes a lot of sense in any environment, but it makes extra sense if you think rates are going up.
I would plan as if social security won't exist, and if your net worth gets north of a million, as you get older, I would think about estate planning. A 20 million dollar joint exemption has made a lot of estate planning unnecessary, but that could come back. In fact, I would say a high estate tax is probably the most likely outcome of future Democrat tax policy.
I could see a transaction tax at some point. But all of the more crazy stuff - stealing investment accounts, etc, won't likely ever happen. Never say never, but I wouldn't plan for that.
This post was edited on 7/1/19 at 12:40 pm
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