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Started By
Message
re: Rand will vote to BLOCK Trump ED on border funding.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 1:54 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 3/3/19 at 1:54 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
RogerTheShrubber
Just to be clear. I understand your point and respect your opinion. You're a clear, level headed thinker that over the years I've come to respect as a poster. Your age and experience I do not yet have.
But despite our opposing viewpoints on this, I just wanted to clarify things and mean no disrespect. 
We on the same side. 
1
Posted on 3/3/19 at 1:54 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
But you forget that most "conservatives" are strictly for whatever works for them, regardless of the method.
Well...Duhhh!
The Radical Democratic Socialist are in possession of the Dem Party, and Trump recognized yesterday that "they will use it" (EO), so just like with the Free Speech/College thing...He should go ahead and then let the Dems try and overturn it. I can just them tearing down the Wall and letting millions (yes, MILLIONS; surveys down in SA confirmed that nearly half of those asked would immigrate to the US if able) crash through.
We can kiss the former Constitutional (honest version) of Governance good bye. Obama's Deep State/"insurance policy" corruption pretty much put the final nail in that; and when Trump drops the FISA Declass it'll be gloves off.
Stalemate and dysfunction now rules. That ship that Rand hopes for, has sailed.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 1:58 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:I KNEW that you and I would eventually find a topic on which we are in full agreement.
Actually I can understand the "no" vote. The National Emergency Act ceded significant Legislative power to the Executive. Congress suddenly finds itself relegated to status as the weakest branch by its own hand.
Trump, by virtue of the NEA, has every right to do what he's done.
Proper action for Rand and likeminded legislators would be to pass legislation undoing the NEA.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:02 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:90% of the Emergency Declarations under the NEA have NOT arisen from "emergencies," but they have not generated much controversy (from either side of the aisle, despite the ID of the POTUS) because the vast majority of that 90% has involved small potato issues with consensus support. So Congress just let the Executive handle it, rather than spending their own time doing so.
Ahhh...he didn't HAVE to. He could have just used the ones Obama put in place that are still in effect. But by him declaring one, it got the left and the media all worked up about how is was unconstitutional, sets bad precedence etc. Then blam!!! Once everyone is looking, he drops the old Obama ED's
Short-sighted and lazy, but sort of understandable.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:05 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Just to be clear. I understand your point and respect your opinion. You're a clear, level headed thinker that over the years I've come to respect as a poster. Your age and experience I do not yet have. But despite our opposing viewpoints on this, I just wanted to clarify things and mean no disrespect. We on the same side.
Its all good brother. We can disagree on some issues, and still be civil.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:07 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Agreed. So leverage it now. They did. Break'em. Then once they realize the err of their ways, have the democratic house write legislation to limit from that point forward. The pass it on to Senate. THAT's how to play that game.
This x 100
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:10 pm to Jjdoc
quote:Procedurally, you are largely correct as to WHICH funds he is diverting, etcetera.
And I will state clearly once more. What he called on to be used is 100% lawful.
What he called on to use has already been allocated by Congress.
As in Congress voted on it after Trump was elected and it was signed into law by none other than Obama.... less than a month of him leaving office
But you are overlooking the prerequisite that there actually BE an "emergency." Trump has even admitted that there is NOT an "emergency."
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:13 pm to Eighteen
quote:So FIX the damned NEA, now. This is a great opportunity.
The Dems will do whatever the want next time in power (and media will carry their water). Republicans like Rand and others will complain about the “abuse of power”. But that’s it. It’ll just be words, even if he is right. Dems will force their legislation through and get whatever policies they want. This is how they win.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:15 pm to Joshjrn
quote:
So not a bootlicker.
That's a sin in these parts, podnah.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:16 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Which is why Trumps emergency declaration probably will not stand.
Not only will it stand, but the wall will be built!!
Hell it is being built right now
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:18 pm to Loserman
quote:
Hell it is being built right now
How much did Congress allocate?
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:19 pm to Eighteen
quote:See my 1:41pm post.
An easier way to explain the stance is this. If Rands decision herre and this vote stopped Trump and also enacted rules to prevent this from being used by any President in the future, I’d stand with him.
But pretending, in the current state of the Democratic Party, that these “principled” and diversified opinions will somehow rub off on them is laughable.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:19 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
rocedurally, you are largely correct as to WHICH funds he is diverting, etcetera. But you are overlooking the prerequisite that there actually BE an "emergency." Trump has even admitted that there is NOT an "emergency."
NO! No NE is needed for that money and WAS NOT used for that money.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:20 pm to LSURulzSEC
quote:
Since Obama spoke about those very things he was, by your definition, a burgeoning dictator...
No.
Don't conflate necessary and sufficient. They aren't the same thing.
I'm not saying that Trump is a burgeoning dictator, Obama was a burgeoning dictator, or that Dale is a burgeoning dictator. I'm saying that line of logic tends to start otherwise reasonable people down the path of dictatorship.
By the way, I voted against Obama. Twice.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:22 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Hell it is being built right now
quote:
How much did Congress allocate?
Trump is shifting funds from defense and Homeland security, DEA and others.
So I'm other words money that was already appropriated.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:25 pm to Jjdoc
quote:Some of the money that he is re-allocating could be re-allocated without an Emergency Declaration. Some of it could not. Three different statutes are in play.
NO! No NE is needed for that money and WAS NOT used for that money.
But MOST of the dollars that he has referenced fall under the NEA.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:26 pm to Joshjrn
quote:You are about to be called a liar.
By the way, I voted against Obama. Twice.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:26 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No. Rand understands the precedent of using EO's to get what you want when it can't get passed through the normal channels the constitution provides is one hell of a slippery slope.
I suppose you might be correct except there have been like 50 of these things and Obama basically governed by them.
That said, I also suppose it comes down to your definition of "emergency" and frankly I am coming down on the side that the situation on the southern border is just that.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:28 pm to bamarep
Has Rand specifically said it’s because he’s anti EO?
I recall his father Ron saying he was against a border fence because he was more concerned about it being a tool to keep citizens in the country, as opposed to keeling illegals out. He referenced the Berlin Wall as a recent example.
I recall his father Ron saying he was against a border fence because he was more concerned about it being a tool to keep citizens in the country, as opposed to keeling illegals out. He referenced the Berlin Wall as a recent example.
Posted on 3/3/19 at 2:29 pm to Loserman
Not for the wall.
If it weren't an issue, why did he have to declare an ED?
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