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re: If Sonny Corleone doesn't get whacked, does the Corleone family win the war?
Posted on 4/13/18 at 10:29 am to Tigeralum2008
Posted on 4/13/18 at 10:29 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
What I never understood was Michael killing Fredo.
Seriously? Because he betrayed Michael by working with Roth because Mike was being difficult in negotiations. Fredo was apparently just trying to make the deal go through and didn't know they were going to try to take out Mike. But it goes back to the first movie in Vegas where Mike warned Fredo not to ever take sides against the family again. Fredo does it again with Roth, and it becomes apparent the he cannot be trusted to stay in line with Michaels ambitions and will constantly undermine his strategy.
1
Posted on 4/13/18 at 10:43 am to TigerFanInSouthland
A boards got to have a code
Posted on 4/13/18 at 10:50 am to deltaland
quote:
Seriously
I think EVERYBODY knows the backstory behind it.The point he was trying to make was the necessity behind it.
Clearly Fredo was a broke man at that point and posed
little if any threat and Mike clearly regretted his
actions later in life in III
Posted on 4/13/18 at 10:58 am to Tigeralum2008
Fredo was a liability that Michael could ill afford to have. The fact that Michael does not kill him once he gets back from Cuba shows remarkable restraint on Michael's part. I'm sure that Fredo did not think his actions would lead to a hit on his brother but they did and all he had to do was to keep his mouth shut in Havana.....but as the Romans would say . In Vino Veritas
Posted on 4/13/18 at 11:10 am to blueboy
quote:
Yes. Sonny was hot for the Turk's deal. Don Corleone didn't want to lose his police protection, but with drug money, Sonny could have just bought more. They never would have had to leave New York, and all of Sonny's enemies would have been destroyed.
Except Sonny was aware of and helped plan the killing of the Turk and it was his hothead that lead to the attempt on Vito’s life in the first place. After Sonny’s death the Don did agree to the Turks plan which was Barzinis plan all along so not sure how that affects the move to Nevada which was really Michael trying to make the Family Legimate
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 11:11 am
Posted on 4/13/18 at 11:13 am to KiwiHead
quote:
Fredo was a liability that Michael could ill afford to have
IF that was the case he would have done it immediately
instead of waiting for his mother to die.
Once again,why did he clearly regret the decision later
in life? He had a long time to ponder Fredo's fate,it's
not like it happened impulsively after he found out about the betrayal ..which would have made much more sense.
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 11:15 am
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:23 pm to blueboy
The family was never forced to leave NY. Michael wiped out all the other families and passed the local business to Clemenzas family. There was more money to make in Vegas and he wanted to expand the families interests.
Sonny would not have been defeated. The families were just ready to make the peace. His death was just enough to force the Corleones accept it. They actually lost and were severly diminished at that point. When Mike took over, he knew things had to change and built new branches of the business, including a new Capo. His take over was a stroke of brilliance and a cullmanation of his father and his taking years to plan (from before he married to Kay).
Sonny was a great leader and the perfect head of the family. Thats why his son eventually takes over. The family adored him. Yeah, he was emotional and loved to fight, but those can be strong traits as well. Being set up by his BIL wasn't something anyone would expect. It didnt make him foolish or a bad leader..
Sonny would not have been defeated. The families were just ready to make the peace. His death was just enough to force the Corleones accept it. They actually lost and were severly diminished at that point. When Mike took over, he knew things had to change and built new branches of the business, including a new Capo. His take over was a stroke of brilliance and a cullmanation of his father and his taking years to plan (from before he married to Kay).
Sonny was a great leader and the perfect head of the family. Thats why his son eventually takes over. The family adored him. Yeah, he was emotional and loved to fight, but those can be strong traits as well. Being set up by his BIL wasn't something anyone would expect. It didnt make him foolish or a bad leader..
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:39 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Sonny was too much of a hot head. I think he would have caused the demise of the family. Plus, the other families might have grown big enough and powerful enough to take Sonny out. Michael didn't give them the option to grow. He saw enemies and took them out before they could cause any trouble.
I also think Michael was much smarter than Sonny. He saw all the intricate parts of the web. If the situation was reversed, I don't think Sonny would have figured out the rats in the family. He would be busy banging cocktail waitresses in a hat check closet.
He was as cold blooded as they come. He killed Fredo, but to me proof of his calculating cold blooded streak was the hooker. He had that hooker murdered to frame the Senator. That wasn't some revenge killing. That wasn't someone who deserved to die. Just a chick in the wrong place and the wrong time.
I also think Michael was much smarter than Sonny. He saw all the intricate parts of the web. If the situation was reversed, I don't think Sonny would have figured out the rats in the family. He would be busy banging cocktail waitresses in a hat check closet.
He was as cold blooded as they come. He killed Fredo, but to me proof of his calculating cold blooded streak was the hooker. He had that hooker murdered to frame the Senator. That wasn't some revenge killing. That wasn't someone who deserved to die. Just a chick in the wrong place and the wrong time.
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:43 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Don Corleone:
I never thought you were a bad consiglieri, Tom. I thought Santino was a bad don, rest in peace.
I never thought you were a bad consiglieri, Tom. I thought Santino was a bad don, rest in peace.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:49 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Fredo was a liability that Michael could ill afford to have. The fact that Michael does not kill him once he gets back from Cuba shows remarkable restraint on Michael's part.
He didn't kill Fredo right away b/c his mother was still alive. Once she kicked it Fredo was cooked.
Also, I think it's a bit harsh to say Fredo betrayed the the family. That implies he tried to set up Michael on purpose. He was simply an idiot who didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. That's more than likely why Micheal regretted it so much.
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:55 pm to Dr RC
quote:
Also, I think it's a bit harsh to say Fredo betrayed the the family.
I never read the books so I don't know if they go into more detail, but clearly Fredo let someone into the compound. What did he think they were there for? He claims he didn't know they were coming after Michael, but he had to know they were after someone.
He either straight up betrayed the family or he was too stupid to live. I'm going with too stupid to live but no way Michael takes the chance of letting him do the same thing again at a later date.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 1:57 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
quote:
Eta: Oh, spoiler alert for all you un-American and uncultured swines that haven't seen one of the top 5 movies of all time.
Part II is better.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:00 pm to Dr RC
quote:
He didn't kill Fredo right away b/c his mother was still alive. Once she kicked it Fredo was cooked.
And IF he was that much of a threat to Mike,the family
or his business he would have clipped him asap regardless of his considerations for his Mom.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:08 pm to TigerMyth36
I never saw it as he let them in. I don't think he was that stupid. I saw it as he just let them know where Micheal was going to be in an effort to aid negotiations. He probably thought they were simply going to send a person to pay their respects.
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 2:21 pm
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:09 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
but clearly Fredo let someone into the compound.
Not so sure that's the case.Whoever killed the assassins is probably the person who let them in.
And they were killed almost immediately per the timeline from when the bullets were fired to when the guard dogs were let out to when they found the bodies.
That person also opened the drapes in Kate's bedroom and Kate claimed they were closed when she went to bed.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:10 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
but no way Michael takes the chance of letting him do the same thing again at a later date.
If that was really the concern he would have had him killed right away. Michael killed Fredo for revenge pure and simple. He was completely neutered at that point, Roth, Johnny Ola, Even Pentageli were dead there was no one left that really knew Fredo. He could have been cutout and forced to live on the grounds more or less
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:14 pm to RD Dawg
quote:
Not so sure that's the case.Whoever killed the assassins is probably the person who let them in.
And they were killed almost immediately per the timeline from when the bullets were fired to when the guard dogs were let out to when they found the bodies.
That person also opened the drapes in Kate's bedroom and Kate claimed they were closed when she went to bed.
Exactly. This doesn't line up with the way Fredo acts at all. Even he would know it was a hit if he was asked to leave some drapes open.
Also, to think Fredo had the stones to kill the assassins right after they shot the place up is crazy talk. The dude couldn't even stand up to his drunk arse wife.
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 2:16 pm
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:19 pm to Dr RC
They also had their throats slit...not Fredo's line of
work.
work.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:32 pm to TigerFanInSouthland
Is there any other movie where people talk about fictional characters with the reverence of The Godfather?
Seriously i love the films, but people talk about them like they are historical figures haha.
Seriously i love the films, but people talk about them like they are historical figures haha.
Posted on 4/13/18 at 2:35 pm to TheFonz
quote:
I think Fredo knew it was only a matter of time though before he got one in the back of the head.
He knew he was getting whacked when Anthony was called away as they were getting in the boat. "Hail Mary full of grace..."
This post was edited on 4/13/18 at 2:42 pm
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