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Message
re: Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi Discussion Thread ***SPOILERS***
Posted on 1/17/18 at 3:40 pm to PianoTiger
Posted on 1/17/18 at 3:40 pm to PianoTiger
quote:
This is why I stick to dedicated and serious Reddit boards when taking about Star Wars.
0
Posted on 1/17/18 at 5:54 pm to Sentrius
after reading the reviews, here and other places, i didnt bother to go see the movie.
a "friend" had a bootleg download version, the "real one" not the fan edited one, so we watched it last night.
i must say it was beyond disappointing.
the way the movie was made and what they did with the characters, and im not speaking of the geeks complaints who religiously hold to the way certain characters must be.
i can see the story line as it was laid out, but certainly isnt the way most envisioned the next movie to be, but it did follow the basic "premise" of the story and then took it in a very not expected direction.
my issues with the movie are with the way the girl "supposedly" needed luke to come save them, yet with only 5 minutes of jedi training from luke she had more power and control over the force then any jedi ever shown in the star wars story, including luke's. yet seemed to be a weak little girl with no confidence or even awareness of that power which is beyond belief and ridiculous on its face.
in the last episode, the emperor and vader were both dead, and they had completely defeated the empire and freedom was being celebrated throughout the galaxy. ok i can see how the empire forces spread throughout the galaxy might have regrouped with a new leader and then regained control, but to jump that far forward to where the rebellion was down to a couple hundred people and only a dozen ships is a stretch too far. if they wanted to do this then there needed to be some massive large battle at the beginning or at least a better explanation explaining the complete destruction of the forces of the rebellion and how they had to scatter to the far reaches of the galaxy just to survive, to explain how its now just a few rag tag remnants remaining.
then the scene where stoke was killed just seemed like a very lazy done script, its literally stealing lukes scene where he turns vader, and i mean "hell this is the exact same setup exactly" feeling and just tweaks it to fit the characters in this story.
finally the way the ending was done was left so undone, and feeling so unfinished, in what all i can explain is as a very lazy way that showed they either ran out of money, or they didnt know how to end it, so they just never finished the movie at all, put in the credits scroll, and called that the ending.
to be a complete movie you needed an ending and they at least had to have an ending scene where they all went off their own way, either to give up fighting or to go recruit a new rebel army in order to come back stronger to begin the fight again some day.
i dont know if it matters in the end because i dont see anyone willing to go see another star wars movie made by disney after the way this one was done so badly, not unless its done more like the previous movies in a true to the character of how a star wars movie is done.
in the end it seems like someone fresh out of high school who never saw any of the previous star wars movies took the script completely in a very non star wars way and made a movie with no knowledge of what star wars is or was ever about.
it was a good movie "based on" the star wars story, but it wasnt a star wars movie, and it wasnt true to the original established characters and who they were based on their back stories, or "anything" that was clearly established about the way the force works in every preceding episode and how a person has the power and is trained to use it and to master it takes many years of training and devotion. this reminds me of the star trek show "The Orville" which is based on star trek but is nothing like star trek. its a good show, but its more of a star trek parody, then a true serious star trek show.
just my 2 1/2 cent review of the movie, albeit pretty late to the thread
a "friend" had a bootleg download version, the "real one" not the fan edited one, so we watched it last night.
i must say it was beyond disappointing.
the way the movie was made and what they did with the characters, and im not speaking of the geeks complaints who religiously hold to the way certain characters must be.
i can see the story line as it was laid out, but certainly isnt the way most envisioned the next movie to be, but it did follow the basic "premise" of the story and then took it in a very not expected direction.
my issues with the movie are with the way the girl "supposedly" needed luke to come save them, yet with only 5 minutes of jedi training from luke she had more power and control over the force then any jedi ever shown in the star wars story, including luke's. yet seemed to be a weak little girl with no confidence or even awareness of that power which is beyond belief and ridiculous on its face.
in the last episode, the emperor and vader were both dead, and they had completely defeated the empire and freedom was being celebrated throughout the galaxy. ok i can see how the empire forces spread throughout the galaxy might have regrouped with a new leader and then regained control, but to jump that far forward to where the rebellion was down to a couple hundred people and only a dozen ships is a stretch too far. if they wanted to do this then there needed to be some massive large battle at the beginning or at least a better explanation explaining the complete destruction of the forces of the rebellion and how they had to scatter to the far reaches of the galaxy just to survive, to explain how its now just a few rag tag remnants remaining.
then the scene where stoke was killed just seemed like a very lazy done script, its literally stealing lukes scene where he turns vader, and i mean "hell this is the exact same setup exactly" feeling and just tweaks it to fit the characters in this story.
finally the way the ending was done was left so undone, and feeling so unfinished, in what all i can explain is as a very lazy way that showed they either ran out of money, or they didnt know how to end it, so they just never finished the movie at all, put in the credits scroll, and called that the ending.
to be a complete movie you needed an ending and they at least had to have an ending scene where they all went off their own way, either to give up fighting or to go recruit a new rebel army in order to come back stronger to begin the fight again some day.
i dont know if it matters in the end because i dont see anyone willing to go see another star wars movie made by disney after the way this one was done so badly, not unless its done more like the previous movies in a true to the character of how a star wars movie is done.
in the end it seems like someone fresh out of high school who never saw any of the previous star wars movies took the script completely in a very non star wars way and made a movie with no knowledge of what star wars is or was ever about.
it was a good movie "based on" the star wars story, but it wasnt a star wars movie, and it wasnt true to the original established characters and who they were based on their back stories, or "anything" that was clearly established about the way the force works in every preceding episode and how a person has the power and is trained to use it and to master it takes many years of training and devotion. this reminds me of the star trek show "The Orville" which is based on star trek but is nothing like star trek. its a good show, but its more of a star trek parody, then a true serious star trek show.
just my 2 1/2 cent review of the movie, albeit pretty late to the thread
This post was edited on 1/17/18 at 8:04 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:59 am to keakar
It's been awhile since I saw this movie, and I figured I would give my perspective on it now, after it has all settled in.
Basically, Disney has turned Star Wars into the space version of Pirates of the Caribbean. It's a fantasy setting to allow for bland adventures now, with a mystical (the Force) element added in both for effects and for expressing a point of view (ie a religious soapbox, but without the stigma of religion).
Nothing fits into Lucas' original stories, or even his later prequel trilogy, or mythos for that matter.
Politics- in the OT, it was The Empire. They ruled the galaxy, and the Rebellion was formed to overthrow it (or break free). But everything was an Imperial territory. Tatooine was, Luke wanted to go to the Academy. There were stormtroopers there. Alderaan was, Leia was a senator from that planet, and the Senate was part of the Empire until the Death Star was launched to rule by fear instead of bureaucracy. The Rebellion hid out on desolate, outskirt planets under the Empire's watchful gaze (and Lando ran a small bootleg mining operation beneath the level that would attract their attention).
Prequels- the Republic, the precursor to the Empire. Again, the Senate had representatives from everywhere.
This arrangement fell apart in a civil war where several major systems tried to break away (the Corporate Sector, the Trade Federation, the Banking Clan, etc). This caused the formation of the Empire, and the opposing political movement was stamped out. Empire reigned supreme at the end.
Sequels- 2/3 in, we really have no idea what the hell is going on in the galaxy. Forget the supplemental books, we should be able to understand a movie story from the actual movies. We were told that there was a New Republic, but they got snuffed out an hour into the first film. There is a First Order with Imperial-style gear... which doesn't make much sense overall. If the Rebellion won after the Emperor was killed, THEY should have the benefit of the manufacturing facilities, and they should have the new gear. One would assume the New Republic would be that. And if the First Order is a remnant of the old Imperial forces, the New Republic should be fighting them tooth and nail, because the consolidation of power should be the principle goal of any government. A surviving and fighting segment of the Empire means the Rebel Alliance should still be at war, because it never ended.
Which leads us to the Resistance. Leia's now in that group. But the Resistance existed while the New Republic was still around... so who are they resisting? Are they in First Order territory (the name would suggest so, but we don't ever see any First Order worlds)? Were they resisting the New Republic too? Are they just militant guerrillas?
It seems that the story has been neglected severely. At best, the galaxy has Balkanized, but that isn't told to us either. More likely, the whole central concept has just been ignored for the sake of shallow space conflicts on the big screen.
And that's just the political angle, I'm not even going into the Force mysticism and the Skywalker storylines that are being tossed aside.
None of this sequel, thus far, is worthy of the Star Wars name.
Basically, Disney has turned Star Wars into the space version of Pirates of the Caribbean. It's a fantasy setting to allow for bland adventures now, with a mystical (the Force) element added in both for effects and for expressing a point of view (ie a religious soapbox, but without the stigma of religion).
Nothing fits into Lucas' original stories, or even his later prequel trilogy, or mythos for that matter.
Politics- in the OT, it was The Empire. They ruled the galaxy, and the Rebellion was formed to overthrow it (or break free). But everything was an Imperial territory. Tatooine was, Luke wanted to go to the Academy. There were stormtroopers there. Alderaan was, Leia was a senator from that planet, and the Senate was part of the Empire until the Death Star was launched to rule by fear instead of bureaucracy. The Rebellion hid out on desolate, outskirt planets under the Empire's watchful gaze (and Lando ran a small bootleg mining operation beneath the level that would attract their attention).
Prequels- the Republic, the precursor to the Empire. Again, the Senate had representatives from everywhere.
This arrangement fell apart in a civil war where several major systems tried to break away (the Corporate Sector, the Trade Federation, the Banking Clan, etc). This caused the formation of the Empire, and the opposing political movement was stamped out. Empire reigned supreme at the end.
Sequels- 2/3 in, we really have no idea what the hell is going on in the galaxy. Forget the supplemental books, we should be able to understand a movie story from the actual movies. We were told that there was a New Republic, but they got snuffed out an hour into the first film. There is a First Order with Imperial-style gear... which doesn't make much sense overall. If the Rebellion won after the Emperor was killed, THEY should have the benefit of the manufacturing facilities, and they should have the new gear. One would assume the New Republic would be that. And if the First Order is a remnant of the old Imperial forces, the New Republic should be fighting them tooth and nail, because the consolidation of power should be the principle goal of any government. A surviving and fighting segment of the Empire means the Rebel Alliance should still be at war, because it never ended.
Which leads us to the Resistance. Leia's now in that group. But the Resistance existed while the New Republic was still around... so who are they resisting? Are they in First Order territory (the name would suggest so, but we don't ever see any First Order worlds)? Were they resisting the New Republic too? Are they just militant guerrillas?
It seems that the story has been neglected severely. At best, the galaxy has Balkanized, but that isn't told to us either. More likely, the whole central concept has just been ignored for the sake of shallow space conflicts on the big screen.
And that's just the political angle, I'm not even going into the Force mysticism and the Skywalker storylines that are being tossed aside.
None of this sequel, thus far, is worthy of the Star Wars name.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 7:41 am to keakar
quote:
to jump that far forward to where the rebellion was down to a couple hundred people and only a dozen ships is a stretch too far.
I agree with your premise, but to be fair, at the beginning of TFA, Star Killer base destroyed an entire solar system containing the entire capital of the republic.
The problem is they spent absolutely no time or investment setting up The First Order or the Republic, so no one cared and the moment fell flat. That's on Abrams.
Really they needed a set up movie first, TFA should've been second, and then the third movie could've wrapped everything up.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 7:46 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:39 am to Breesus
quote:
Star Wars: The Last Jedi is an outright box office smash hit with a 2017 North American-leading $594.9 million and a grand spanking total of $1.3 billion worldwide (and counting). By any measure, it’s going to finish as one of the 10 highest grossing films of all time. Disney and Lucasfilm need not worry about that pesky second-week domestic drop at the box office a few weeks back.
But the studio should be concerned when it comes to the lack of interest in the Force in China.
The Last Jedi debuted to a disappointing $28.7 million in China last week and sank like James Cameron’s Titanic to just $2.4 million in week two, per Box Office Mojo. That’s a 92 percent fall, which is steeper than the Emperor’s tumble at the end of Return of the Jedi.
quote:LINK
The Last Jedi is expected to finish its Chinese run—which started on 25,000 screens—with less than $50 million. Some of the biggest worldwide flops of the year like Valerian ($62 million) and Geostorm ($65.6 million) have easily outgrossed that paltry effort.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 9:48 am to Breesus
Not that I’m sticking up for Abrams, because he was still Executive Producer, but TLJ’s failings made TFA much worse as well. All the setup questions could’ve easily been resolved by something as simple as the opening crawl, something like:
The New Republic, still attempting to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict with the First Order despite the destruction of its home system, is in disarray. The First Order, under the leadership of the mysterious Snoke, continues to pull systems to its side as the effects of the crumbling Empire continue to be felt on the outer systems. Meanwhile, the Resistance continues to push for a military solution without the backing of the New Republic, as Admiral Ackbar leads an assault on the First Order’s base, ______. General Organa has dispatched a lone fighter to contact her brother, Luke Skywalker, in an attempt to turn the tide of the war.
That way you could still start with the expected opening battle, which could’ve had some kind of twist if they were looking for that, and then get to the Luke/Rey story, while answering all the questions like who is the Republic, the Resistance, why the First Order is gaining power, etc. The story then could’ve gone into Snoke’s backstory, either with a flashback or some other device, while folding in Kylo Ren and his training.
Instead, TLJ not only ignored all the loose ends that TFA left to be answered, it also failed to world-build to give any context to the story. It truly failed on both fronts.
The New Republic, still attempting to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict with the First Order despite the destruction of its home system, is in disarray. The First Order, under the leadership of the mysterious Snoke, continues to pull systems to its side as the effects of the crumbling Empire continue to be felt on the outer systems. Meanwhile, the Resistance continues to push for a military solution without the backing of the New Republic, as Admiral Ackbar leads an assault on the First Order’s base, ______. General Organa has dispatched a lone fighter to contact her brother, Luke Skywalker, in an attempt to turn the tide of the war.
That way you could still start with the expected opening battle, which could’ve had some kind of twist if they were looking for that, and then get to the Luke/Rey story, while answering all the questions like who is the Republic, the Resistance, why the First Order is gaining power, etc. The story then could’ve gone into Snoke’s backstory, either with a flashback or some other device, while folding in Kylo Ren and his training.
Instead, TLJ not only ignored all the loose ends that TFA left to be answered, it also failed to world-build to give any context to the story. It truly failed on both fronts.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 10:41 am to pwejr88
quote:
Really enjoyed it! I don’t get the hate for it.
Thought this was serious until I read this:
quote:
can’t wait for Solo in a few months.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 11:05 am to Breesus
quote:
Star Killer base destroyed an entire solar system containing the entire capital of the republic.
I know this is nitpicky, but that scene had little to no emotional effect on me since we had so little information about the system and its inhabitants. Heck, I think they just mentioned the name of the system in passing. That was one of the very few issues I had about TFA. Abrams was so looking to get rid of the old planets and systems from the OT and prequels that he came up with new systems that you hardly could remember the names of at the end of the movie, except Jakku.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 11:45 am to Bankshot
quote:
know this is nitpicky, but that scene had little to no emotional effect on me since we had so little information about the system and its inhabitants
I agree 100%. I said almost exactly that in my OP.
Think about the amazing holy frick moment if we had an entire first movie exploring that solar system and building up Hux and Ren and Snoke on the outer system.
Then they made TFA.
You get everyone invested and liking the new republic and then you bring down the theater when Starkiller Base wipes that entire system out.
Instead, we never even saw much less cared about that place and it was a tiny explosion in the sky and then the movie moved on and never talked about it again.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:46 pm to Breesus
quote:Bigtime. BIGTIME.
Really they needed a set up movie first, TFA should've been second, and then the third movie could've wrapped everything up.
A first movie could have reintroduced us to the Star Wars galaxy 30 years after the Rebellion happened. Showed the majesty of the New Republic, the supposed peace and prosperity they enjoyed, but still in the rebuilding stages postwar. Leia could be prominent in the new government.
Starkiller Base (called some planetary name) is just an energy-producing plant, a welcome new innovation in the rebuilding fringe of the galaxy. The New Republic seeks to reach out to Snoke and The First Order and bring them back into the fold, even encouraging this new energy plant. Snoke offers to share this tech in return, to bring 'lasting peace and unity to the galaxy".
Our old heroes are addressed- Leia remains involved in the governmental parts of the New Republic.
Luke had run a Jedi academy, but left for parts unknown after it failed disastrously (and mysteriously), told in flashback.
We cam get occasional teaser scenes of Luke alone on his hermitage, parts unknown, to show us he still lives. He can look angrily at old Jedi books, maybe even throw one aside and say "why didn't you tell me, Yoda. I'm done with these lies".
We see Ben, conflicted, in normal clothes on some planets. He's seeking out Jedi scholars. He even talks to some, seeking knowledge of the Force, and warning them that they're in danger; a mysterious Dark Side user, is hunting down all Jedi knowledge.
-Introduce Rey here, random cutscenes of her on Jakku, following the Ben scenes. She's looking at the X-wing pilot doll, etc. Just a simple set of shots, implying she is linked to Ben and the Jedi by association, somehow.
Both Han and Leia want to find Luke to find out what happened with their son Ben, who was at the Jedi Academy when Luke abruptly vanished and the Jedi temple was destroyed.
Han leaves looking for his son, Leia basically said "don't come back without him". What little Han hears of Ben, he doesn't like- rumors of a Darkside user, dangerously close to his missing son in various places. Han is always a step behind.
Leia gets whispers of the First Order posing a legit and serious threat, which is dismissed by the new Senate and Chancellor
(those days are long past, you're too paranoid. And clearly, you're upset about your family. Take some time and get your mind right). Frustrated by the conflicting info she receives, she leaves 'on vacation'; to secretly join her old spy network (the 'resistance') in person, to discover the truth.
We see Kylo Ren in mask and black clothes, killing these scholars.
Rey scene again, she's accosted by thugs on Jakku, and we see her amazing fighting ability (crazy-close to Kylo's style).
The 'resistance' comes across the Starkiller plans and skirmishes with First Order forces in a dogfight near the base, and loses. Only Poe escapes with the info of what it really is.
We then see Kylo taking hologram orders from Snoke, explaining the Starkiller plan to destroy the New Republic through the power of the Dark side; "their arrogant blindness will be their undoing".
Kylo is silent in all this, we never hear his voice. Total mystery.
Rey scene immediately following, or even interspersed- looks at the various Rebel gear and paraphenalia she has, and maybe fearfully at the Imperial wreckage, looks startled and scared, and grips her fighting staff in a reflexive manner. Gets claustrophobic looking at the Imperial symbol on something, and has to go outside. She stands looking at the wrecked Star Destroyer, then her gaze goes to the sunset on the horizon. Not clear to her, but the viewer gets the Force awakening.
The final scene- Kylo Ren enters Ben's apartment in full gear, suggesting there will be a big fight or something- oh shite, Kylo has found Ben Solo, our new hero is in danger. THEN and only then, do we get the big reveal: Kylo Ren takes off the mask, and we see it's Ben.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 7:35 pm to Breesus
quote:
Think about the amazing holy frick moment if we had an entire first movie exploring that solar system and building up Hux and Ren and Snoke on the outer system.
Then they made TFA.
You get everyone invested and liking the new republic and then you bring down the theater when Starkiller Base wipes that entire system out.
Instead, we never even saw much less cared about that place and it was a tiny explosion in the sky and then the movie moved on and never talked about it again.
absolutely this
unless they plan to have the next episode to do like the original SW movie did with a new hope and with this shite they could go back in time before TLJ to do exactly as you just said and lay out the whole thing for us so TLJ can finally at least make sense if not still be the worst directed SW movie ever, it would at least salvage it to some degree along the lines of TFA where we can ignore how bad it was as long as it fills in the story line properly.
they better also damn well explain how rhen is a more powerful jedi then even luke is without even knowing how to use the force
i really doubt this is what they have in mind for the 2nd disney SW episode, but i hope they realize this is what they must do to keep SW fans coming back, otherwise there will be many empty seats at the next release and the 3rd disney SW episode will have to be scrapped and not even released
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 1/19/18 at 2:43 am to keakar
So, let's analyze this, and see what they may intend to do:
In the OT, the first movie was lots of spectacular fun and adventure. Lots of daring, good guys prevail. Old mentor for the hero dies at the hand of the villain (who really isn't the villain, but the key redemption later on).
Sequel trilogy- check.
OT, second movie- darker, more desperate, Rebels get beaten and have to escape; Luke has to learn from the Jedi master (but doesn't, really- the key is he made that journey. He CHOSE to be a Jedi). He faces his nemesis and fails, his supporting cast are in disarray and in danger. Han is encased in carbonite and sent to Jabba.
Sequel, second movie- if anything, the plight is even worse for the Resistance. They don't escape, they can't get away this time. Rey also makes the journey to learn from the Jedi master, and Rey also leaves without gaining much from him... but as Yoda tells Luke, she already has what she needed. She also has made the choice. She faces her nemesis and... fails? He chose to kill Snoke instead of Rey, but he didn't turn.
Supporting cast? Poe is chastised, Finn is lectured to. I GUESS you could say the fate of the galaxy rests in their hands.
OT finale- Luke returns in full Jedi mode, quickly saves Han from Jabba. The Rebels make a daring move to end the war, attacking the new Death Star and hoping to kill the Emperor. Luke goes to redeem Vader. The Rebels fail, but Luke succeeds, and in doing so, he tips the battle back into the Rebels' hands. Oh, and the Rebels don't really fail, they regroup with the help of unlikely allies to bring down the shield. Luke's faith in his friends (Palpatine's insult that is his weakness) is well-placed and rewarded.
Sequel finale-???
Rey is, I suspect, going to emerge as a full Jedi, or something close to it.
Are they going to tweak the storyline, or follow it?
Will there be a greater villain than Kylo Ren, to defeat and redeem him, or will they skip one or both parts? Does she redeem him, or defeat him? Who can she save from imminent death- the entire resistance?
Will she dispatch Rose and save Finn?
What desperate mission will they undertake to resolve the conflict and end the First Order, and will they split up to attempt this (as they did in the OT)?
Harrison Ford wanted Han to die, as the reluctant member who'd played his part and his story was over. Will they honor that, and kill Finn, the reluctant member this time (they had the chance to do so in TLJ and skipped it).
I think it will follow some of the pattern, but they might tweak things off some. Right now, we have the equivalent of Vader killing Palpatine in ESB and taking over the Empire... how does that play out for ROTJ? I guess you redeem Ren by turning him, so that he destroys the First Order himself, and dies in the process. Will he do that to save Rey?
In the OT, the first movie was lots of spectacular fun and adventure. Lots of daring, good guys prevail. Old mentor for the hero dies at the hand of the villain (who really isn't the villain, but the key redemption later on).
Sequel trilogy- check.
OT, second movie- darker, more desperate, Rebels get beaten and have to escape; Luke has to learn from the Jedi master (but doesn't, really- the key is he made that journey. He CHOSE to be a Jedi). He faces his nemesis and fails, his supporting cast are in disarray and in danger. Han is encased in carbonite and sent to Jabba.
Sequel, second movie- if anything, the plight is even worse for the Resistance. They don't escape, they can't get away this time. Rey also makes the journey to learn from the Jedi master, and Rey also leaves without gaining much from him... but as Yoda tells Luke, she already has what she needed. She also has made the choice. She faces her nemesis and... fails? He chose to kill Snoke instead of Rey, but he didn't turn.
Supporting cast? Poe is chastised, Finn is lectured to. I GUESS you could say the fate of the galaxy rests in their hands.
OT finale- Luke returns in full Jedi mode, quickly saves Han from Jabba. The Rebels make a daring move to end the war, attacking the new Death Star and hoping to kill the Emperor. Luke goes to redeem Vader. The Rebels fail, but Luke succeeds, and in doing so, he tips the battle back into the Rebels' hands. Oh, and the Rebels don't really fail, they regroup with the help of unlikely allies to bring down the shield. Luke's faith in his friends (Palpatine's insult that is his weakness) is well-placed and rewarded.
Sequel finale-???
Rey is, I suspect, going to emerge as a full Jedi, or something close to it.
Are they going to tweak the storyline, or follow it?
Will there be a greater villain than Kylo Ren, to defeat and redeem him, or will they skip one or both parts? Does she redeem him, or defeat him? Who can she save from imminent death- the entire resistance?
Will she dispatch Rose and save Finn?
What desperate mission will they undertake to resolve the conflict and end the First Order, and will they split up to attempt this (as they did in the OT)?
Harrison Ford wanted Han to die, as the reluctant member who'd played his part and his story was over. Will they honor that, and kill Finn, the reluctant member this time (they had the chance to do so in TLJ and skipped it).
I think it will follow some of the pattern, but they might tweak things off some. Right now, we have the equivalent of Vader killing Palpatine in ESB and taking over the Empire... how does that play out for ROTJ? I guess you redeem Ren by turning him, so that he destroys the First Order himself, and dies in the process. Will he do that to save Rey?
Posted on 1/19/18 at 5:09 am to Scoob
quote:
Luke has to learn from the Jedi master (but doesn't, really- the key is he made that journey. He CHOSE to be a Jedi).
Luke was on Degobah for a while training with Yoda and we even see a small montage type of training where he's first unable to do anything then he can lift some small rocks then he can lift some. Bigger rocks then he can almost lift the xwing then Yoda shows him the power of the force then he learns more control..... Yoda was a caring mentor and Luke, albeit headstrong and impatient, learned from him.and was better for it.
And he had already trained with Obi-Wan and met Vader, etc....
Also, the span of time from Star Wars to Empire to RotJ is agreed to be 4 to 5 years. Luke has time to train and even construct a lightsaber, etc....
The entire span of TFA and TLJ is how long? A week? Maybe? The entire movie TLJ is specifically stated to be 6 hours right? And TFA was probably a couple days?
Rey showed up to Luke extremely powerful already, did no training, whipped his arse in a duel, then stole all the Jedi books and left without a bit of advice from Luke.
quote:
Rey is, I suspect, going to emerge as a full Jedi, or something close to it.
What does that even mean? She's already the most powerful and least challenged unmatched force user in the history of the SW Universe, where can her character even go from here? She's going to be able to blink teleport anywhere she wants and control the flow of space and time like Neo at the end of the Matrix?
Who even cares about the third movie? The entire Resistance is 11 people on the Millennium Falcon who have yet to face a single task they can't almost immediately overcome. They're not in any danger at all and there's no tension to their story.
Atleast in the OT the rebellion was an organized crew of people with multiple planes and Fighters and they won some and lost some, and you were rooting for them but you thought they might not make it but they had a chance etc....
At the end of The Last Jedi they send out a distress signal and make a point to say everyone received it but no one gives a shite.
Even the people inside the movie universe don't give a shite about the resistance anymore.
And why in the frick is there a resistance in the first place? The Republic was powerful and ruling part of the galaxy it doesn't even make sense that there would be a resistance funded by them. They won at the end of RotJ. So the rebellion became the Republic and then Leia decided to just make a resistance squad and fund them to black ops attack her enemies? She's incompetent. They never explain what the frick they're resisting. So I guess they're Leia's spec ops guerrilla force ala the CIA or something
TLJ ruins the whole trilogy. Instead of tieing up and exploring the loose ends and story and character arcs left at the end of TFA it destroyed all of them.
This has been a long rant I'm not even going to reread for grammar. I'm sure I made some points in there somewhere. frick that movie and frick Rian Johnson and frick Disney
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:26 am to Breesus
Just goes to show you that developing a new trilogy with no overarching plan was bone headed.
They would honestly make more money in the future by admitting to their mistake and starting over than by trying to salvage this shite story somehow in episode 9.
They would honestly make more money in the future by admitting to their mistake and starting over than by trying to salvage this shite story somehow in episode 9.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 10:55 am to Breesus
quote:
TLJ ruins the whole trilogy. Instead of tieing up and exploring the loose ends and story and character arcs left at the end of TFA it destroyed all of them.
this ^^^^
its like if you take neo in the last matrix movie and suddenly change the whole story so it has nothing to do with saving zion or fighting the control of the matrix, the story no longer makes sense.
that is where they went with TLJ, they didnt just take the story line in a new and different direction, they simply made everything in the story line no longer matter as well as not make any sense in even the most basic way.
if they wanted a whole new movie then just do that but its almost as if this was a deliberate attempt to undo the star wars story line completely into a jerry springer like WTF is this ridiculous BS while using the SW name recognition to make money doing it.
dont get me wrong, when i finished watching it i felt it wasnt a great movie but was an "ok" movie.
all while at the same time feeling "well that wasnt even close to everything star wars was about all this time in all previous movies"
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 11:00 am
Posted on 1/19/18 at 12:16 pm to keakar
Rian on why there were no Knights of Ren in TLJ
More reasons why not having an overarching plan was stupid. Completely wasted plot points from TFA.
quote:
I guess I could’ve used them in place of the Praetorian guards but then it would feel like wasting them because all those guards had to die. And if Kylo had some kind of connection to them it would’ve added a complication that wouldn’t have helped the scene… Truth is, I just didn’t see a place for them in the movie.
More reasons why not having an overarching plan was stupid. Completely wasted plot points from TFA.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 12:48 pm to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
Truth is, I just didn’t see a place for them in the movie.
Well, Rian, that's because you wrote a shite movie.
Posted on 1/19/18 at 1:30 pm to Salamander_Wilson
“It would feel like wasting them”
Kills off Snoke
Kills off Snoke
Posted on 1/19/18 at 1:56 pm to Breesus
quote:
Time to stop being a whiney bitch
Precisely why the post needs to be un-stickied. because of all the whiney arse bitches (like you)
Posted on 1/19/18 at 2:26 pm to Salamander_Wilson
quote:
And if Kylo had some kind of connection to them it would’ve added a complication that wouldn’t have helped the scene…
frick that piece of shite.
His literal excuse is that he didn't want to add conflict or character development into the movie? What a hack.
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