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re: What can we get with this package?
Posted on 6/5/17 at 12:08 pm to Crewz
Posted on 6/5/17 at 12:08 pm to Crewz
quote:
Hill will be starting next year. Book it
The only chance you have at rehabbing him as an asset is hoping he takes the jump you were looking for. I think they have reason to believe this coaching staff can improve his 3 point shooting, but he's pretty bad finishing at the rim. Unfortunately these coaches don't have a track record for improving finishing or getting to the line.
2
Posted on 6/5/17 at 12:34 pm to TigerinATL
If Hill can get to around 38% from 3, there's nothing wrong with him being our SF. He does suck around the rim, but he's also a good passer. He just needs to be smarter about when he does drive to the basket, as well as his teammates need to look to get open when he drives.
We simply need more shooters. We started off last year shooting horribly from 3 on open shots, even though we were at some ridiculous rate of like 90% of our 3's were open to wide open 3's. I have a good feeling it will be the same this year, in that we will be taking a lot of wide open 3's again. knock them down and life gets a whole lot easier for AD and Cousins.
We simply need more shooters. We started off last year shooting horribly from 3 on open shots, even though we were at some ridiculous rate of like 90% of our 3's were open to wide open 3's. I have a good feeling it will be the same this year, in that we will be taking a lot of wide open 3's again. knock them down and life gets a whole lot easier for AD and Cousins.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 1:43 pm to mm2316
quote:
do they believe in his ability to improve, and provide the "3 and D" role
He shot ~35% from 3 last season. That isn't terrible, but it would be nice if he could improve on that a bit. I think he's a decent role player, but should be the 5th offensive option on the court at all times.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 1:52 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
If Hill can get to around 38% from 3, there's nothing wrong with him being our SF. He does suck around the rim, but he's also a good passer. He just needs to be smarter about when he does drive to the basket, as well as his teammates need to look to get open when he drives.
He's a big boy and is 7th to last in SF (61 of 68) Rebound Rate. This is downright unacceptable. I don't even want to know what the opposing SF ORR is when Hill is in the game.
You are correct in the assist category.
He does a terrible job moving off ball.
Dude flat out needs to play harder.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 2:33 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
but he's pretty bad finishing at the rim. Unfortunately these coaches don't have a track record for improving finishing or getting to the line.
In his crazy Houston game, he was driving like crazy and creating contact leading to his highest FTA's of the year. He is a poor finisher, but actually pretty strong getting to the rim and is a 80+% free throw shooter. I really want to see him focus on learning how to draw the foul when he drives instead of just trying to finish.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 3:08 pm to NOFOX
The few games he's done well at attacking the basket multiple times in the same game were games where there wasn't a rim protector. In the case of Memphis, Gasol was playing but he was out of position/slow on defense a lot that game.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 4:03 pm to TigerinATL
I don't think he will improve substantially at finishing, but I do think he could really improve on drawing fouls. Maybe the refs won't give it to him because he's a bigger dude with no name, but I think he could be more effective learning to get to the line versus trying to become a better finisher.
Posted on 6/5/17 at 4:15 pm to NOFOX
how much of the rebounding woes is on him vs gentry's "get back on transition defense" 
Posted on 6/6/17 at 7:19 am to Crewz
quote:
Hill will be starting next year. Book it
i think most Pels fans have lost the plot on Hill.
certainly has flaws. but he does bring things to the table- which, unfortunately for him, usually don't show up in his box score (his on/off numbers are interesting). his salary, while an overpay, isn't Mozgov or Crabbe level insane (he's around $8M in an old cap world).
ETA- his contract is why FA/cap space is fools' gold for NO. Pels aren't signing FA worth anything unless they overpay. hell, they're likely going to overpay Holiday to stay with the team. they need to strengthen scouting/player development for the projects they are going to sign.
now, if the conversation wants to get more nuanced, i do think there will be some trouble if they plan to play him exclusively as a 3 next to Davis/Cousins. he's a small 4 on offense. i'd like to see him play a good bit next to either Davis or Cousins. we'll see what happens w/ the backcourt, but i would think they need to take a flier on a 3 or two that can shoot.
maybe they can fix Hill's shot, but his skill set on offense seems to be a very poor fit for what his role looks like in the new era
This post was edited on 6/6/17 at 7:23 am
Posted on 6/6/17 at 7:32 am to corndeaux
Shooting is what keeps getting brought up, but the difference between 34% and 38% is like one extra three made every 10 games
To me, Hill earns his money if he can cut and finish effectively in this offense and if his ball handling and playmaking improves 15%
To me, Hill earns his money if he can cut and finish effectively in this offense and if his ball handling and playmaking improves 15%
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:02 am to Crewz
I will say that Hill is not seen leaguewide as a a thrash.
He has some value not only in dell's eyes.
also - he was on Orlando Magic's blackboard...
:)
He has some value not only in dell's eyes.
also - he was on Orlando Magic's blackboard...
:)
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:11 am to pawel
Who wasn't on that board?
And if you look, he is basically in a section where you could get the guy for free, or more likely, get an asset to take him
Hill is not trash, but he is probably a 6-8 million dollar per year value if the cap is 100 million. Unfortunately, he makes close to twice that for three more years.
Now the next step will be people pointing out the contracts that are worse, as if that is a good argument.
Is it better than having Crabbe and his deal? Sure. But if anyone remembers, my desire was to get a James Johnson or an Ian Clark on a one year deal and stay flexible. Imagine if Hill and his deal were off the books today-- how many more options you would have this summer. And if you strike out on bigger plans, do you really think it would be that hard to find somebody who gives you close to what he does on a one year deal again?
He will never be worth that contract, but here is to hoping he just doesn't decline
And if you look, he is basically in a section where you could get the guy for free, or more likely, get an asset to take him
Hill is not trash, but he is probably a 6-8 million dollar per year value if the cap is 100 million. Unfortunately, he makes close to twice that for three more years.
Now the next step will be people pointing out the contracts that are worse, as if that is a good argument.
Is it better than having Crabbe and his deal? Sure. But if anyone remembers, my desire was to get a James Johnson or an Ian Clark on a one year deal and stay flexible. Imagine if Hill and his deal were off the books today-- how many more options you would have this summer. And if you strike out on bigger plans, do you really think it would be that hard to find somebody who gives you close to what he does on a one year deal again?
He will never be worth that contract, but here is to hoping he just doesn't decline
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:34 am to Crewz
I am not saying that he is worth it.
Just that he is movable.
Dell fell in love with him in the past. Promised that they will stay in touch. And overpaid him...
he is not bad combo forward. probably better as a small ball power forward. 6-7th man at best
but worst things might have happened than Hill's contract
not defending anyone, cause if he was not picked by Dell - we probably will have worse SF. Like Barnes or Parsons at max...
Just that he is movable.
Dell fell in love with him in the past. Promised that they will stay in touch. And overpaid him...
he is not bad combo forward. probably better as a small ball power forward. 6-7th man at best
but worst things might have happened than Hill's contract
not defending anyone, cause if he was not picked by Dell - we probably will have worse SF. Like Barnes or Parsons at max...
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:36 am to pawel
I mean not worse player but worse contract
Posted on 6/6/17 at 8:47 am to pawel
Again, "It could be worse."
Is a terrible argument. That does not negate that X is very bad. It should offer no solice whatsoever.
When you are trying to be #1 out of 30, it doesn't matter if 5 or 10 other teams messed up worse than you.
Is a terrible argument. That does not negate that X is very bad. It should offer no solice whatsoever.
When you are trying to be #1 out of 30, it doesn't matter if 5 or 10 other teams messed up worse than you.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 9:29 am to Crewz
like w/ all role players, it matters who is around them.
on the all-switching, Davis as a 5, Holiday is healthy, and Hield/Galloway shooting Pels, Hill approaches a good chunk of his contract. on the current iteration, it looks like he'll be closer to the $6-$8M range.
and, again, so much of the Hill conversation comes down to how much or little things not seen in the box score are valued.
Barnes at a max would actually be fine with me. i thought he was a good fit as a 3 and small ball 4 pre Cousins and that still holds post Cousins. a max would have been a lot, but his skill and flexibility would have been worth it.
on the all-switching, Davis as a 5, Holiday is healthy, and Hield/Galloway shooting Pels, Hill approaches a good chunk of his contract. on the current iteration, it looks like he'll be closer to the $6-$8M range.
and, again, so much of the Hill conversation comes down to how much or little things not seen in the box score are valued.
quote:
Like Barnes or Parsons at max
Barnes at a max would actually be fine with me. i thought he was a good fit as a 3 and small ball 4 pre Cousins and that still holds post Cousins. a max would have been a lot, but his skill and flexibility would have been worth it.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 9:32 am to corndeaux
James Johnson would have been an interesting play. Clark should absolutely be a target this summer.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 2:04 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
question everything else your sauce said.
I would too if it not for his position with the team, and that scares me.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 2:43 pm to touchdownjeebus
quote:Griffin makes no sense at all. I assume we will approach CP, but do not expect the conversation to last long. Any talk of options to replace Jrue (FA or trade)?
Jrue is leaving. I know I know, sauces but I have had more than one conversation with someone high up in the organization that has point blank said, "Jrue isn't going to be a Pelican next year." oddly enough, and this makes 0 sense to me, he also said blake griffin would be "interesting". I almost threw up in my mouth. He also said CP would be approached. TIFWIW, I have no reason to pull shite out of my arse.
Posted on 6/6/17 at 2:57 pm to NOSHAU
Maybe the team is hoping somebody will overpay Holiday so they don't have to. There are many scenarios where a Holiday S&T is better than keeping him.
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