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re: Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 12:27 pm to zatetic
Posted on 6/1/17 at 12:27 pm to zatetic
quote:
As another fellow/s pointed out, Germans were northerners and as such if the CSA would have won the United States would have been more in line with the Axis while the CSA would have been more in line with the Allies.
I understand the demographics you and the others have mentioned. However, I am mainly focusing on the fact that the CSA would have slavery and generally be okay with its practice. Versus Great Britain and France who already abolished it as well as the US.
Granted the US did tolerate the USSR, so it's not totally out of the question to assume a CSA alliance. I guess it's an issue of how well the rest of the civilized world would accept a power that still uses slavery as its economic engine.
I would be happy if it were a case where the CSA ended slavery peacefully and instituted civil rights, but history also shows the chances of that happening being extremely unlikely outside of the force of arms.
1
Posted on 6/1/17 at 12:30 pm to volod
Slavery has existed since the beginning of time all over the world. And it is wrong.
What would help race relations is that some black leaders would step up and be role models for young blacks. ie education, family values and work ethic.
What would help race relations is that some black leaders would step up and be role models for young blacks. ie education, family values and work ethic.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 12:47 pm to volod
quote:
, I am mainly focusing on the fact that the CSA would have slavery and generally be okay with its practice. Versus Great Britain and France who already abolished it as well as the US.
By WWI and WWII the CSA would've abolished slavery and both GB and France backed the CSA
Posted on 6/1/17 at 12:53 pm to volod
quote:
If the CSA would have become an apartheid, then from a psychological perspective they would be more in line with Hitlers Nazi Germany.
Yes, on a philosophical level maybe, but I think practicality would win out over philosophical purity. No way would CSA want to be fighting essentially another civil war against USA, especially with 20th century weaponry, which would be inevitable if they joined with the Axis powers while the USA fought with the Allies. At worst, they would have stayed out of the war altogether. If they got involved, it would only be, and could only be, on the side with the USA.
quote:
I think you all put too much faith in Southern states willingness to do the right thing (ie treat people fairly, regardless of race).
I put zero faith in that. More years than I would like to remember of living in the south taught me better than that. I already posted that it is very possible CSA would never have abolished slavery or, if it did, would do so only in name and retain the institutional racism that effectively enslaved African-Americans for another century after the civil war.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 2:16 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
I put zero faith in that. More years than I would like to remember of living in the south taught me better than that.
Dafuq does this mean?
Posted on 6/1/17 at 2:22 pm to Kramer26
quote:
Slavery existed in the North after the Civil War ended. The Civil War was not fought over slavery.
have you ever actually read the articles of concession? virtually every state explicitly lists their right to own slaves in bold on the first line of the article.
it's time to stop pretending and face reality.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 2:43 pm to Masterag
quote:
have you ever actually read the articles of concession? virtually every state explicitly lists their right to own slaves in bold on the first line of the article. it's time to stop pretending and face reality.
This is partially correct but the northern part of the confederacy which woulda been over half the confederate population only withdrew because lincoln asked each state to supply 50,000 soldiers for an obvious invasion, so those states did not leave the union for slavery but because of states rights and to fight off an invasion, the southern part of the confederacy you would have a reason to believe that, but don't think for a minute that the northwen population would have went to war over slavery, the north was fully complicate, profited, and help establish the enslavement of a race, heck the south was pratically paying the nations taxes at the time, when it came to african bondage there werent many good guys.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 2:53 pm
Posted on 6/1/17 at 2:48 pm to Masterag
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/27/20 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 6/1/17 at 2:58 pm to Kramer26
I did say virtually
Posted on 6/1/17 at 3:03 pm to volod
Carthaginian Society of Athens?
Posted on 6/1/17 at 3:05 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
A Union which broke apart, in part, because of the issue of slavery
Posted on 6/1/17 at 3:11 pm to Masterag
quote:
have you ever actually read the articles of concession? virtually every state explicitly lists their right to own slaves in bold on the first line of the article.
This is incorrect and out of context but south Carolina was racist as frick for sure.
No more racist than Lincoln though.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 3:49 pm to volod
If you look at the private communications between the higher ups they all knew that the institution of slavery was finished. They were faced with the problems associated with integrating 12 million or so slaves into society. Additionally they had to find a labor source to replace the freed slaves.
The transition would've gone much more smoothly had the southern states not had it forced on them at bayonet point. You certainly could've avoided reconstruction and the simmering resentment and hatred. Would it have taken an additional twenty years or so? Absolutely. Would we be in a different place regarding race relations? Absolutely. The argument can be made that we'd all be better off here in the south.
The transition would've gone much more smoothly had the southern states not had it forced on them at bayonet point. You certainly could've avoided reconstruction and the simmering resentment and hatred. Would it have taken an additional twenty years or so? Absolutely. Would we be in a different place regarding race relations? Absolutely. The argument can be made that we'd all be better off here in the south.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 4:21 pm to bencoleman
quote:
with the problems associated with integrating 12 million or so slaves into society. Additionally they had to find a labor source to replace the freed slaves.
The transition would've gone much more smoothly had the southern states not had it forced on them at bayonet point. You certainly could've avoided reconstruction and the simmering resentment and hatred
There were no 12 million slaves in 1860.
Country was built upon violence & I see few options other than violence to end slavery in the U.S.
No sympathy for those wanting to end a barbaric institution at the perpetrators time/place/ choosing.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 4:26 pm to stout
quote:
The most discriminated against person in the USA today is a straight white male
This is the most truthful thing I have ever read on TD. Thank you.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 4:38 pm to sugar71
quote:
Country was built upon violence & I see few options other than violence to end slavery in the U.S.
This is so dumb... name one, just one other country that fought a war to end slavery... i'll wait
Posted on 6/1/17 at 5:30 pm to GetCocky11
John Wilkes Booth was the man
Posted on 6/1/17 at 5:35 pm to Kramer26
frick A Jack
Posted on 6/1/17 at 5:41 pm to sugar71
I stand corrected. There were 4 million blacks enslaved in the south. I don't know how many overall.
I don't know why I got stuck on 12. I usually remember numbers pretty well.
I don't know why I got stuck on 12. I usually remember numbers pretty well.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 6/1/17 at 5:57 pm to volod
Yes I do. I also believe there would be less black crime if the Ku Klux Klan had more power. 
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