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re: Which would you rather?
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:19 am to Toula
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:19 am to Toula
quote:
How many free agents did we recruit the last time we got swept by GS in the playoffs?
Which is why i said "if they put up a fight or even win"
Your comment does not correlate with my hypothetical, obviously I think getting swept won't be good for the program because it doesn't show progress
Also i said id rather get a pick below 8 than make playoffs, I just think the 9-15 picks are all relatively similar, theres a huge jump from the first 8 to the second 8 picked
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:43 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Yeah but if the season ended today they'd have the 9th best odds at picking 1st
Fixed.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:51 am to iamandykeim
quote:
"hassan101"
boom alter back at it again... gotta be kidding me with this shite
quote:
iamandykeim
Wait...arent you one of the Whitesiders (aka alters)
quote:
re: Trade IdeaPosted on 11/10/15 at 8:13 pm to william45 what if hassan ends up being better than AD.... y'all have been bashing this idea of hassan's potential for so long and Hassan keeps looking better and better... not saying it's likely but what if...
quote:
re: Omer Asik - iamandykeim on 11/17/15 at 1:30 pm I really think we should trade him and some picks for Hassan Whiteside...
quote:
re: when's the next HUGE pels trade coming? - iamandykeim on 9/27/16 at 1:57 pm Davis for Hassan possibly?...
yep. weak attempt
Posted on 1/11/17 at 12:16 pm to hassan101
barring injury, they cannot tank b/c Davis. that means no Holiday for a pick trades unless Davis is on board (highly doubtful) or they believe in Evans (also highly doubtful).
however it shakes out w/r/t playoffs, they can't move the pick unless it nets them a longer term piece.
likely not finding a "star" but still quality players available 10-14 (whom they need to identify and who will take time to develop like all rookies) or options to package the pick w/players 2nds.
however it shakes out w/r/t playoffs, they can't move the pick unless it nets them a longer term piece.
likely not finding a "star" but still quality players available 10-14 (whom they need to identify and who will take time to develop like all rookies) or options to package the pick w/players 2nds.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 3:32 pm to mmonro3
I'm all about either a play off push
OR
Package off Reke/ Ajinca/ Jrue/ Moore/ asik. And tank for real son
OR
Package off Reke/ Ajinca/ Jrue/ Moore/ asik. And tank for real son
Posted on 1/11/17 at 3:49 pm to hassan101
quote:How so?
A Top 5 pick is very possible if we wanted it
Posted on 1/11/17 at 7:26 pm to shel311
The owner just has to accept the fact that losing and tanking is the best option for the team to get better
Posted on 1/11/17 at 8:46 pm to Hamma1122
The reality is that tanking is not only frowned upon, but the fact that it creates an environment that isn't great.
We're not going to out tank a lot of these teams, not if AD is healthy. Then again, you don't want to make him mad by shopping your squad to acquire assets who may or may not help him achieve his goals.
Tanking doesn't assure you a guaranteed high level player. Look at young guys right now like D'Angelo Russell, people are so high on him but he hasn't progressed much since last year. Nerlens Noel was considered a #1 guy before his injury and look where he is now.
Gkve me a mid teens pick and playoffs, the rate of success isn't as high, but who here would have loved to have Sam dekker? All of us, he looks like he will be a stater in a year. He was found with our pick for asik.
We're not going to out tank a lot of these teams, not if AD is healthy. Then again, you don't want to make him mad by shopping your squad to acquire assets who may or may not help him achieve his goals.
Tanking doesn't assure you a guaranteed high level player. Look at young guys right now like D'Angelo Russell, people are so high on him but he hasn't progressed much since last year. Nerlens Noel was considered a #1 guy before his injury and look where he is now.
Gkve me a mid teens pick and playoffs, the rate of success isn't as high, but who here would have loved to have Sam dekker? All of us, he looks like he will be a stater in a year. He was found with our pick for asik.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:18 pm to hassan101
I cant remember a single team tanking their way out of being bad, so ill take playoffs.
Posted on 1/11/17 at 9:54 pm to htran90
quote:
who here would have loved to have Sam dekker?
sure. but Dekker over Russell and Noel? you serious clark?
what a weird and awful way to be optimistic about the Pels
Posted on 1/11/17 at 10:45 pm to corndeaux
lol I thought the same thing when I read that
This post was edited on 1/11/17 at 10:46 pm
Posted on 1/11/17 at 11:37 pm to corndeaux
quote:
sure. but Dekker over Russell and Noel? you serious clark?
what a weird and awful way to be optimistic about the Pels
i'm more or less trying to say, those considered 'top draft picks' who are even 1-2 (lets be honest, no injury and noel is #1 overall) aren't surefire players either. Its a crapshoot, but there's talent that can be found in the later rounds. The draft could be a complete dud for all we know (even though this draft is considered so deep) and if we're to get a top 5 pick we'd have to sell the whole barn to acquire just pure assets and roll the dice someone develops into a co-star with Davis.
I'd rather build around what we have, only make deals that can possibly get us or Davis better (Like Holiday-Rubio type of swap), and not flush it all just for more picks or something useless so we can tank. Playoffs and trying to find talent > blowing it up and rolling the dice.
Russell is still a volume shooter with a poor shot selection. He hasn't really progressed much and the numbers are not this 'superstar' people were calling him to become.
TS 50.7->52.0
ORTG of 96->102
DRTG of 112->111
Noel has been a defensive anchor, never developed any offensive game and from the looks of it it just seems like he isn't going to. All while having what seems like a plethora of injuries every year.
Sam Dekker was overlooked and in his 2nd year he's had decent minutes: TS% 55.9, 117 ORTG, 109 DRTG. He's developing and I guarantee by next year he's going to have even better pure numbers, that's time to develop players. We have time to do it and making the playoffs while doing it is better than not IMO.
A guy like CJ McCollum was a 10th overall pick, yet is arguably the 2nd best player from that draft.
Guys like Steven Adams (12), Giannis (15), and Dieng (21) have developed into better players than guys like Oladipo (2), Porter (3), Noel (6), and McLemore (7).
In the 2014 draft, the top 3 guys were Wiggins, Parker, and Embiid. 3 guys who are superstar caliber players and by far the best 3 in their whole draft. Yet there are gems in the later parts: Saric (12), LaVine (13), Warren (14), Hood (23), Capela (25).
I'd love to have a Wiggins-Parker-Embiid, but the draft could end up being a total flop like the 2012 class. That class was considered deep yet these can't miss guys like MKG, Waiters, Ross, and TRob ended up having worse careers than their fellow class: Harkless, Fournier, Crowder, Green, etc
This post was edited on 1/11/17 at 11:43 pm
Posted on 1/12/17 at 6:09 am to htran90
While all of that is true, we are talking about Demps and Ferry who have not had the greatest track record in regards to draft picks. That's the fear at this point.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 6:45 am to Pendulum
quote:OKC is the example everyone likes to throw around
I cant remember a single team tanking their way out of being bad, so ill take playoffs.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 7:15 am to Let Me Take A Selfie
I don't remember OKC tanking I thought they were just bad
I would rather go to the playoffs just bc I cannot pull for them to lose
I just want to see this team trend upward find out if DMO can be the missing link as a PF/C does Reke fit our future etc..
I would rather go to the playoffs just bc I cannot pull for them to lose
I just want to see this team trend upward find out if DMO can be the missing link as a PF/C does Reke fit our future etc..
Posted on 1/12/17 at 7:40 am to BallHawk
Demps has traded most of his 1st round picks, so he has only drafted Ad, Rivers and Hield. Rivers was obviously a terrible choice, but if you go look at that draft class, it was slim pickings. Henson would have been great, but you just picked AD. Fournier would have been the correct, and awesome choice, but Demps would have been crucified taking him at 10. A whole lotta gm's passed on him.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 8:20 am to Solo
I'd rather be in the playoffs, even with a sub .500 record.
Like others have said, it's not a playoffs are top 5 pick choice. It's likely a playoffs, and picking around 16th, or no playoffs and picking around 12th, assuming healthy AD.
Now if AD gets hurt, then yeah, we will likely finish in the bottom 5. While I'd like a top 5 pick, I would much rather a healthy AD.
I'm not saying we can beat the Warriors, or should have last time, but we play them hard every time we play them. I would bet any money that while the Warriors could probably care less about who the 8 seed is they get to beat, they'd likely much rather it be Portland or Sac or Denver, not the Pels.
If we had a truly healthy Jrue last time in the playoffs, and Curry doesn't sink that almost impossible corner 3, that's a much different series. Would have been great to take them to 6 games. That's a bit of a win for this team this year as well.
Like others have said, it's not a playoffs are top 5 pick choice. It's likely a playoffs, and picking around 16th, or no playoffs and picking around 12th, assuming healthy AD.
Now if AD gets hurt, then yeah, we will likely finish in the bottom 5. While I'd like a top 5 pick, I would much rather a healthy AD.
I'm not saying we can beat the Warriors, or should have last time, but we play them hard every time we play them. I would bet any money that while the Warriors could probably care less about who the 8 seed is they get to beat, they'd likely much rather it be Portland or Sac or Denver, not the Pels.
If we had a truly healthy Jrue last time in the playoffs, and Curry doesn't sink that almost impossible corner 3, that's a much different series. Would have been great to take them to 6 games. That's a bit of a win for this team this year as well.
Posted on 1/12/17 at 8:43 am to Solo
Exactly. His history isn't too great in terms of foresight.
Let's take a look...
2011 Draft
Traded 1st Rd. Pick to POR for Jerryd Bayless in Oct. 2010. Bayless was dealt a month later to TOR for David Andersen, Marcus Banks, and Jarrett Jack. The pick would end up being #19.
Selection: Tobias Harris
Others Available: Jimmy Butler, Donatas Motiejunas, Kenneth Faried, Chandler Parsons, Nikola Mirotic, Reggie Jackson
Selected Josh Harrellson with 2nd pick (#45) and traded to NYK for cash
Others Available: Lavoy Allen, E'Twaun Moore, DeAndre Liggins
2012 Draft
Selected Anthony Davis #1 Overall
Selected Austin Rivers #10 - pick acquired in CP3 trade - Rivers later traded in deal for Pondexter
Others Available: Jeremy Lamb, Evan Fournier, Jared Sullinger, Terrence Jones, Miles Plumlee, Festus Ezeli, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green, John Henson
Selected Darius Miller in 2nd Rd (#46 - acquired from DAL) - later released
Others Available: Kostas Papanikolaou, Kyle O'Quinn
Traded own 2012 2nd rd pick (#34 overall) to acquire Marcus Thornton in 2010 draft
Selection: Jae Crowder
2013 Draft
Drafted Nerlens Noel #6 overall - traded Noel and 2014 1st for Jrue Holiday and Pierre Jackson
Jackson would later be traded for Russ Smith
Traded Own 2nd Rd Pick (#35) in three-team trade that sent Mo Speights to MEM (nothing in return)
2014 Draft
Traded 2014 1st Rd Pick (#11) overall in Holiday trade
Actual Selection: Elfrid Payton
Others Available: Jusuf Nurkic, Dario Saric, T.J. Warren, Kyle Anderson, Clint Capela, Rodney Hood
Traded Own 2014 2nd Pick (#40) that sent Antonio Daniels to MIN for Bobby Brown and Darius Songalia (2009 trade so pre-Demps)
Selection: Glenn Robinson III
Acquired Russ Smith at pick #47 from Philly for Pierre Jackson
2015 Draft
Traded 1st Rd Pick (#18) to HOU in Omer Asik deal
Selection: Sam Dekker
Others Available: Bobby Portis, Larry Nance Jr., Kevon Looney, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson
Traded Own 2nd Rd Pick (#47) in CP3 trade
Selection: Arturas Guaditis
Drafted Branden Dawson with pick #56 (acquired in QPon trade) - traded Dawson to Clippers
2016 Draft
Drafted Buddy Hield #6 overall
Traded Picks #39 & 40 to draft Chieck Diallo with pick #33
Traded Acquired 2nd pick (from MIN - pick #35)
Selection: Rade Zagorac
Traded what would be pick #36 to SAC in Tyreke Evans trade - ended up with MIL
Selection: Malcolm Brogdon
I know that's a lot to read and I apologize but it does illustrate the notion that Dell has never been good about holding on to picks nor with having the foresight of using them in better deals on draft night (except for Diallo)
Let's take a look...
2011 Draft
Traded 1st Rd. Pick to POR for Jerryd Bayless in Oct. 2010. Bayless was dealt a month later to TOR for David Andersen, Marcus Banks, and Jarrett Jack. The pick would end up being #19.
Selection: Tobias Harris
Others Available: Jimmy Butler, Donatas Motiejunas, Kenneth Faried, Chandler Parsons, Nikola Mirotic, Reggie Jackson
Selected Josh Harrellson with 2nd pick (#45) and traded to NYK for cash
Others Available: Lavoy Allen, E'Twaun Moore, DeAndre Liggins
2012 Draft
Selected Anthony Davis #1 Overall
Selected Austin Rivers #10 - pick acquired in CP3 trade - Rivers later traded in deal for Pondexter
Others Available: Jeremy Lamb, Evan Fournier, Jared Sullinger, Terrence Jones, Miles Plumlee, Festus Ezeli, Jae Crowder, Draymond Green, John Henson
Selected Darius Miller in 2nd Rd (#46 - acquired from DAL) - later released
Others Available: Kostas Papanikolaou, Kyle O'Quinn
Traded own 2012 2nd rd pick (#34 overall) to acquire Marcus Thornton in 2010 draft
Selection: Jae Crowder
2013 Draft
Drafted Nerlens Noel #6 overall - traded Noel and 2014 1st for Jrue Holiday and Pierre Jackson
Jackson would later be traded for Russ Smith
Traded Own 2nd Rd Pick (#35) in three-team trade that sent Mo Speights to MEM (nothing in return)
2014 Draft
Traded 2014 1st Rd Pick (#11) overall in Holiday trade
Actual Selection: Elfrid Payton
Others Available: Jusuf Nurkic, Dario Saric, T.J. Warren, Kyle Anderson, Clint Capela, Rodney Hood
Traded Own 2014 2nd Pick (#40) that sent Antonio Daniels to MIN for Bobby Brown and Darius Songalia (2009 trade so pre-Demps)
Selection: Glenn Robinson III
Acquired Russ Smith at pick #47 from Philly for Pierre Jackson
2015 Draft
Traded 1st Rd Pick (#18) to HOU in Omer Asik deal
Selection: Sam Dekker
Others Available: Bobby Portis, Larry Nance Jr., Kevon Looney, Montrezl Harrell, Josh Richardson
Traded Own 2nd Rd Pick (#47) in CP3 trade
Selection: Arturas Guaditis
Drafted Branden Dawson with pick #56 (acquired in QPon trade) - traded Dawson to Clippers
2016 Draft
Drafted Buddy Hield #6 overall
Traded Picks #39 & 40 to draft Chieck Diallo with pick #33
Traded Acquired 2nd pick (from MIN - pick #35)
Selection: Rade Zagorac
Traded what would be pick #36 to SAC in Tyreke Evans trade - ended up with MIL
Selection: Malcolm Brogdon
I know that's a lot to read and I apologize but it does illustrate the notion that Dell has never been good about holding on to picks nor with having the foresight of using them in better deals on draft night (except for Diallo)
This post was edited on 1/12/17 at 8:45 am
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