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re: Chad Ford: 6 and Ajinca for Jahlil Okafor?
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:37 pm to branchstephens
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:37 pm to branchstephens
Skeptic is Skeptical
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:40 pm to Crewz
quote:
Cook is right about Okafor showing his elbow moves. In fact, Okafor finished the season ranked fifth among players averaging 30 or more minutes in points per game from the elbows – trailing only Anthony Davis, Marc Gasol, Blake Griffin and Chris Bosh. He also had the seventh-best point percentage from the elbows among qualified players – behind only Darren Collison, Andrew Wiggins, Kevin Durant, J.R. Smith, Jae Crowder and Serge Ibaka. It’s clear that Okafor’s offensive arsenal, which already included a vast array of post moves, is continuing to expand.
quote:
“He’s such a gifted scorer naturally, but I thought he made great strides on the defensive end,” Coach Scheyer said. “I saw consistent effort on that end, and that’s something that people tried to pick on about him. I thought defensively he improved throughout the year, with his ball-screen defense, help-side defense and all that. … He loves the work. He wants to develop, and he loves the game so he’s always trying to get better. He’s constantly doing what’s necessary to take that next step in his game
Good article from Alex Kennedy. Okafor acknowledges his D inefficiency and realizes there is work to do. I think he gets it and could flourish next to AD
Let me ask you this - with the news that PHI is in love w Dunn - says he available at 6 and PHI will give you a Jerami Grant too .. What do you say?
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:43 pm to SHMILL
1 year with philly isn't really a good sample size judgement for a guy like this.
Poor playing conditions, no leadership, bad teammates & coaching. And most of all, he's young. You can't close the book on him based on that
Poor playing conditions, no leadership, bad teammates & coaching. And most of all, he's young. You can't close the book on him based on that
Posted on 6/15/16 at 12:49 pm to GynoSandberg
AD played about 50% of his minutes at center last year. That's not saying he can't be a full time PF, but presumably Okafor will get paid big money on his 2nd contract and possibly 3rd since scoring and being tall usually gets you overpaid. Do we want our 2nd highest paid player to be a one way center?
I'm honestly not sure I'd want Drummond next to AD long term from a roster/cap management perspective. I'd love to have him on the roster as a trade chip, I just don't think 50%-60% of the cap should be committed to AD and a one way player.
Since Philly was so bad in general I'm not sure what we can make of the on/off numbers, but they had the 2nd worst NetRtg of -16 with Okafor on the floor. An ORtg of 92 and a DRtg of 108.
I also don't like 7 footers that don't rebound. I was hoping that maybe we'd see some RoLo kind of effect where he's a bad individual rebounder but the team performed better with him in, but the team Reb% was 47% and last in the league overall. With Okafor on the court they only went up to 47.8% which would only move them up to 27th.
I'm honestly not sure I'd want Drummond next to AD long term from a roster/cap management perspective. I'd love to have him on the roster as a trade chip, I just don't think 50%-60% of the cap should be committed to AD and a one way player.
Since Philly was so bad in general I'm not sure what we can make of the on/off numbers, but they had the 2nd worst NetRtg of -16 with Okafor on the floor. An ORtg of 92 and a DRtg of 108.
I also don't like 7 footers that don't rebound. I was hoping that maybe we'd see some RoLo kind of effect where he's a bad individual rebounder but the team performed better with him in, but the team Reb% was 47% and last in the league overall. With Okafor on the court they only went up to 47.8% which would only move them up to 27th.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:02 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Good article from Alex Kennedy. Okafor acknowledges his D inefficiency and realizes there is work to do. I think he gets it and could flourish next to AD
Let me ask you this - with the news that PHI is in love w Dunn - says he available at 6 and PHI will give you a Jerami Grant too .. What do you say?
Are you saying Okafor+Grant for Ajinca+6? That gets more interesting with our need at the 3, but Grant isn't really a needle-mover.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:05 pm to SHMILL
People talk about raw stats like it means anything when it comes to winning
You know who else was a 20/10 guy on a bad team? Kevin Love. Al Jefferson put up beast numbers too. And guys like that are liabilities against great teams
Scoring is the easiest thing to replace in the league. A high scorer gets hurt, guys pick up the slack. A guy like Deaymond goes out and it's impossible to replace all the things he does
I couldn't care less about the empty stats Okafor put up last year. He can't help you win in multiple ways, which means he will eventually become a liability
You know who else was a 20/10 guy on a bad team? Kevin Love. Al Jefferson put up beast numbers too. And guys like that are liabilities against great teams
Scoring is the easiest thing to replace in the league. A high scorer gets hurt, guys pick up the slack. A guy like Deaymond goes out and it's impossible to replace all the things he does
I couldn't care less about the empty stats Okafor put up last year. He can't help you win in multiple ways, which means he will eventually become a liability
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:07 pm to TigerinATL
Well he's a 1 way center focused on improving defensively. The book is already written on a guy like Brook Lopez, but not Okafor
As for the contract stuff, that's a long way in the future. If he doesn't develop defensively you have a 20 ppg center to trade. If he does develop you may have a top 5 NBA center to resign
And let's not put stock in anything the divers did last year
In a perfect world, we could hand pick each player to fill a specific need. Of course we want a center that checks all the boxes, but how many are there like that? shite, there are only a few with the potential as it is, and Okafor is one
As for the contract stuff, that's a long way in the future. If he doesn't develop defensively you have a 20 ppg center to trade. If he does develop you may have a top 5 NBA center to resign
And let's not put stock in anything the divers did last year
In a perfect world, we could hand pick each player to fill a specific need. Of course we want a center that checks all the boxes, but how many are there like that? shite, there are only a few with the potential as it is, and Okafor is one
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:22 pm to GynoSandberg
In terms of roster construction, do we want our two best players (and eventually, two highest paid players?) to be big men? With a pace and space coach?
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:41 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
1 year with philly isn't really a good sample size judgement for a guy like this. Poor playing conditions, no leadership, bad teammates & coaching. And most of all, he's young. You can't close the book on him based on that
Totally agree
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:50 pm to Crewz
quote:
People talk about raw stats like it means anything when it comes to winning
I couldn't care less about the empty stats Okafor put up last year.
Nah, the raw stats are just a measure of the skill. Of course, it's easy to discount them when it supports what you're trying to convey. History tells me not many 20 year old centers can step in and replicate those "empty stats". Give me a break
Just the other day you were preaching about bringing in guys on the cheap who we can grow.. Uncover these hidden gems, so to speak. Yet you are against bringing in a skilled 20 y/o 7ft'er with a huge ceiling, and he's only making an averaged of $5m over three more seasons Doesn't make sense
quote:
You know who else was a 20/10 guy on a bad team? Kevin Love. Al Jefferson put up beast numbers too.
The Al Jefferson comp comes up a lot... the guy was the best player on multiple playoff teams while being a defensively liability. His inability grow as a defender is irrelevant to Okafor.
quote:Hey, get to the playoffs first, then win two series, then you can try your hand at beating great teams.
And guys like that are liabilities against great teams
quote:
In terms of roster construction, do we want our two best players (and eventually, two highest paid players?) to be big men? With a pace and space coach?
For one, it's more about mitigating risk than constructing the roster. You are getting a guy with a high ceiling who is already above league average, versus drafting a Hield or Murray who are not a sure thing.
This roster is wide open as it is. You add a piece wherever you can. As for the term "two big men", yes they are big, but arent back to the basket, lumbering logs. As it is, Davis is taking nearly 30% of his shots from 16+ feet out the past two seasons with improving accuracy. He's expanding his game (young guy expanding his game, who knew!).
We act like the roster has to be constructed as "X", or else it doesnt work. Okafor would be here til 2020 for ~$5m a year - you go out and add more pieces... the roster isnt done. As AD shot develops, he spreads things out more. You saw it work in PHO with Amare (Brett Brown just so happens to comp Okafor to him) and Marion... two perceived "big men".. it's all about the skillset, for me
Posted on 6/15/16 at 1:51 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
In terms of roster construction, do we want our two best players (and eventually, two highest paid players?) to be big men? With a pace and space coach?
Well that wouldn't be for another 4 years.
I'm the biggest proponent of not paying a center big money, but the guy is on a rookie contract. You have 4 years to figure out if he's worth keeping or not. And i would not object to paying a center big money if he was truely a difference maker, AND we had at least one good wing player already, and some young talent in the back court.
Golden State had Bogut and David Lee as their highest paid players last year, and i think Iggy was the next highest paid. Doesn't matter that much when you have young guys on rookie/reasonable deals already.
Dallas paid Chandler big money and he made a world of difference for that team. But they had Kidd/Terry/Marion making reasonable money.
Our problem is outside of AD, we have no one making reasonable money, nor do we have anyone really worth a shite. You could almost say Jrue, but considering how much he's sat out, it's not that reasonable.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:13 pm to Crewz
quote:
I couldn't care less about the empty stats Okafor put up last year. He can't help you win in multiple ways, which means he will eventually become a liability
I like how he's played 50 NBA games but you're talking about him and writing him off like he's played 5 years and stopped developing.
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 2:14 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:13 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
For one, it's more about mitigating risk than constructing the roster. You are getting a guy with a high ceiling who is already above league average, versus drafting a Hield or Murray who are not a sure thing.
I will say that even if Okafor doesn't grow you can probably trade him for a mid 1st down the line. There's no guarantee of that with Hield/Murray/Dunn. So Okafor's floor is certainly higher. But those bad rebounding numbers really make me doubt he becomes an adequate defender. You say those contracts are far off into the future, and they are, but there just aren't many big money bigs I want next to AD. I think the money, and draft assets frankly, should be spent elsewhere. Get an Adams or Dieng with the 2017 1st, or since this draft seems kind of deep in bigs, maybe by picking up a late 1st this year.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:13 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
Golden State had Bogut and David Lee as their highest paid players last year, and i think Iggy was the next highest paid. Doesn't matter that much when you have young guys on rookie/reasonable deals already.
Dude, using GSW is a terrible example. They have the most underpaid MVP in the history of the league on that roster because of an anomaly in timing.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:28 pm to branchstephens
I'm warming up to the idea. Basically attempt to zig when everyone else is trying to zag. Don't react to other teams, make them react to you. A team can't go small if you have Okafor and AD out there.
This is all dependent upon Okafor becoming an adequate rim protector, though.
This is all dependent upon Okafor becoming an adequate rim protector, though.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:30 pm to TigerinATL
I can see both sides of it, so I understand where you are coming from. I don't know if the rebounding will come, but what is the number that makes him an adequate rebounder? 10? A guy like KG didnt become that elite rebounder until he was 22. Or maybe, Okafor just doesn't have to be a double digit rebounder? Going back to Amare; he wasn't really a good defender, but he was electric on offense and an adequate rebounder. So maybe just something in between will suffice
Yes, we are obsessed with matching the talent a team like GS has, and it's near impossible. Even the PHO comp is crazy, as those teams were loaded with good players.
There is no exact blueprint - we wont have a guy be our Curry, or Bogut, or Steve Nash, or whoever. We need to just build the best way we can with the resources available to us
quote:
Dude, using GSW is a terrible example
Yes, we are obsessed with matching the talent a team like GS has, and it's near impossible. Even the PHO comp is crazy, as those teams were loaded with good players.
There is no exact blueprint - we wont have a guy be our Curry, or Bogut, or Steve Nash, or whoever. We need to just build the best way we can with the resources available to us
Posted on 6/15/16 at 2:41 pm to Jester
quote:
Dude, using GSW is a terrible example.
I said Dallas too, b/c GSW isn't a good example.
You can look at the Clippers paying Jordan as well, and if they were ever all healthy in the playoffs, we might get to actually see if that lineup can win something.
You want to be similar to another championship caliber team, but when you think back over the last 10 or so years, the only championship caliber teams out there have been Lebron's Cleveland and Miami teams, GSW, SAS, DAL, BOS big three, LAL, with the just on the outside OKC and maybe LAC.
We aren't Cle/Miami. We aren't GSW. We can't be SAS b/c our coach sucks. Our hopes are more Bos/LAL/Dal, and we can't attract the FA they did or can. If we could hit in the draft and get a superstar, we could be more like OKC.
If you notice a theme with everyone of those teams, they all have two guys in the backcourt that are all star level, except the two LA teams, who had/have the two bigs and 1 all star back court player.
So we are short two all star type back court players.
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:23 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
But those bad rebounding numbers really make me doubt he becomes an adequate defender.
Okafor avg 8.5 rebounds as a freshman at Duke. That's not too too bad. Only 7 as a rookie which is concerning,i'd agree. But I just look at the team he was on and the direction that team took with openly tanking. I wouldnt put him in Brook Lopez company yet.
My concern with him is his maturity issues. Again, I think if he were on a team with strong leadership and direction that will correct itself.
Bottom line is the dude can play. He's what, 20 years old? Gimme that dude who puts up 17.5 with 7 rebounds and over a block a game as a rookie. Plus it's less we have to depend on Asik.
This post was edited on 6/15/16 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 6/15/16 at 3:24 pm to PortCityTiger24
Wouldn't really trust Philly on any deal after they fricked us on Holliday.
Okafor is a fine offensive player, sucks at defense and free throws. Old style player, slows down the offensive to make his moves. Can't switch on defense, requires team to hire him security to babysit off the court too. Pass.
Okafor is a fine offensive player, sucks at defense and free throws. Old style player, slows down the offensive to make his moves. Can't switch on defense, requires team to hire him security to babysit off the court too. Pass.
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