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Why don't we hear more about the Russians helping to end WWII in the Pacific?
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:06 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:06 pm
I feel that most of the teachings on the war in the pacific and even discussions on this board tend to gloss over the Russians contribution to ending the war in the Pacific. I know the russians joined the fight against Japan late in the game, but it could be argued that their joining in the fight had just as much to do with ending the war in the pacific as the U.S. dropping the 2 atomic bombs.
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
20
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
It's a weird geopolitical question.
They did nothing to end the Pacific War except exist. They launched their offensive the same day as Fat Man (as you indicated).
But, one of the factors we considered in ending the war with the bombs (rather than firebombing until September/October) was to cut off Soviet justification for incursions into the China and Japanese spheres of influence.
They did nothing to end the Pacific War except exist. They launched their offensive the same day as Fat Man (as you indicated).
But, one of the factors we considered in ending the war with the bombs (rather than firebombing until September/October) was to cut off Soviet justification for incursions into the China and Japanese spheres of influence.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
Could it be theorized that their getting involved prompted us to drop the nukes so that we wouldn't have to split the victory on the mainland with Russia like we did Europe?
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:08 pm to Emteein
quote:
without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end
Except it would have without the Russian invasion.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:10 pm to Emteein
Because the Russians did almost nothing.
We destroyed the Jap Navy.
We took back the islands in the Pacific
We bombed their homeland
We mounted the greatest submarine warfare ever seen in the Pacific
WE DID THE WORK, not the revisionist history your are learning.
If anyone else deserves credit you can see the Aussies and Brits for that.
ETA: Lets also remember we fought around the entire globe, with oceans between our capital and the battlefields. We supplied the allies, we carried the damn thing. The russians served as a meat grinder, thats about it.
We destroyed the Jap Navy.
We took back the islands in the Pacific
We bombed their homeland
We mounted the greatest submarine warfare ever seen in the Pacific
WE DID THE WORK, not the revisionist history your are learning.
If anyone else deserves credit you can see the Aussies and Brits for that.
ETA: Lets also remember we fought around the entire globe, with oceans between our capital and the battlefields. We supplied the allies, we carried the damn thing. The russians served as a meat grinder, thats about it.
This post was edited on 5/31/16 at 12:17 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:10 pm to Emteein
The Japanese were preparing to be invaded. The Russian successes extremely late in the war meant very little. The Japanese were preparing to fall on their swords en masse to protect the home island.
Until the second bomb was dropped did they see the wisdom of surrender. I don't think Russia finally going on the offensive in the East played much if any role in their thinking.
Until the second bomb was dropped did they see the wisdom of surrender. I don't think Russia finally going on the offensive in the East played much if any role in their thinking.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:12 pm to Emteein
Yeah I read what the writer said about that. Essentially giving credit to the Russians and not the atomic bomb dropped on their heads.
The guy was obviously desperate to come up with an article the was controversial to stir up publicity. Anyone that thinks that the a bombs didnt turn the japs off to war is not worthy of writing articles.
The guy was obviously desperate to come up with an article the was controversial to stir up publicity. Anyone that thinks that the a bombs didnt turn the japs off to war is not worthy of writing articles.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:13 pm to Emteein
Because they didn't do jack shite to Japan
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:17 pm to Emteein
quote:
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
Why do you think they attacked after the 2nd bomb? It was a power grab once they realized the war was all but over. The Japanese held little regard for the Russians attacking them. The war ended because the Emperor finally realized that all was lost and those hard liners around him were extensively neutralized in a failed coup. A coup that would have insulated the Emperor even more and neutered his public influence.
This was like the race to Berlin.. It was all about who got control in the region. They wanted the influence within Asia and led to present day China and geo-political conflicts within Southern Asia
This post was edited on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm to Emteein
7/10
Best ever troll in the history of the History Board
Best ever troll in the history of the History Board
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:19 pm to Emteein
They didn't help at all. They didn't give two shits about manchuria, China nor Korea until we had Japan beat.
They declared war on Japan very late and while they did capture Manchuria, their efforts were more to spread communism than to liberate.
In fact had we gone ahead with the invasion of Japan and Russian been given the green light to invade Hokkaido while we invaded Honshu and Kyushu, we probably would have had a Japanese war like we had a Korean and Vietnam war.
Hell the nukes saved Japan from going partially red for sure.
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
They declared war on Japan very late and while they did capture Manchuria, their efforts were more to spread communism than to liberate.
In fact had we gone ahead with the invasion of Japan and Russian been given the green light to invade Hokkaido while we invaded Honshu and Kyushu, we probably would have had a Japanese war like we had a Korean and Vietnam war.
Hell the nukes saved Japan from going partially red for sure.
In hindsight, we should have listened to Patton and took out Russia while they were weak.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:38 pm to Emteein
Because frick Russia, that's why.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:40 pm to Emteein
quote:Five days before Japan surrendered is definitely "late in the game."
I know the russians joined the fight against Japan late in the game
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:49 pm to Emteein
quote:The Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact, also known as the Japanese–Soviet Non-aggression Pact, signed on April 13, 1941, gave Japan the freedom of bombing the U.S. at Pearl Harbor in December, 1941 and allowed Japan to conduct their Pacific war without having to worry about Russia starting a second front against them in Asia.
I feel that most of the teachings on the war in the pacific and even discussions on this board tend to gloss over the Russians contribution to ending the war in the Pacific.
So, in that regard, Russia helped Japan bomb Pearl Harbor.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:51 pm to Emteein
:redrifle:
Posted on 5/31/16 at 12:58 pm to Emteein
quote:
I just read about the Russians sweeping invasion on Japanese occupied China (Manchuria) on the same day as the dropping of the 2nd atomic bomb, Aug 9, 1945. What do the OT historians think about the idea that without the Russians helping out in the Pacific, the war doesn't come to as abrupt end, possibly dragging on for months or even years? or possibly forcing us to use more Atomic bombs?
The Russians sweeping through china was nothing more than a land grab by Stalin. Russia was still engaging after Japan surrendered a good 2 weeks after to secure themselves more land.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 2:04 pm to Emteein
from what i remember, the Japanese had some diplomatic discussions with the Russians all the way up to the Russians attacking manchuria. The Japanese did not epect the Russians to attack.
The japanese homeland was not threatened by a russian invasion, but an American invasion. the bombs ended an Japanese hopes of a bloody war on their beaches and the US agreeing to end the war short of unconditional surrender
The japanese homeland was not threatened by a russian invasion, but an American invasion. the bombs ended an Japanese hopes of a bloody war on their beaches and the US agreeing to end the war short of unconditional surrender
Posted on 5/31/16 at 4:10 pm to Emteein
quote:
Why don't we hear more about the Russians helping to end WWII in the Pacific?
Because they really didn't do jack shite other than swoop in during the closing days and grab them a nice chunk of Mongolia, China, North Korea, and the Kuril Islands.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 4:51 pm to Emteein
Because they didn't.
Posted on 5/31/16 at 5:47 pm to Emteein
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