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Message
re: American Pharoah vs. Secretariat; Side-by-Side Synched Videos
Posted on 6/9/15 at 4:17 pm to vengeanceofrain
Posted on 6/9/15 at 4:17 pm to vengeanceofrain
quote:
if anything Secretariat would stock AP. AP is a natural front runner and would get the jump on big red
That's what he did to Sham for the first third of the Belmont, and obviously it worked out perfectly.
The issue obviously is you can't compare races since strategy would be totally different with a horse like Secretariat in the field.
3
Posted on 6/9/15 at 4:20 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:Thats why Man O War is such a beast. There is no strategy to beat him. None. Red was a beast, but 5 different times out of 21 he lost. MOW was 20-1, with his only loss being because they started the race when he had his back towards the starting line
The issue obviously is you can't compare races since strategy would be totally different with a horse like Secretariat in the field
And he still almost won
Posted on 6/9/15 at 5:07 pm to tigerpawl
Notice how American Pharoah just held back the whole race and looked very casual galloping along until the last quarter. Then he kicked it up and pulled ahead easily. Had he kicked it on earlier he easily could have finished that race with a time similar to Secretariat.
He wasn't racing to break time records. He was racing to win. You really can't compare races side by side like this because different paces were set.
He wasn't racing to break time records. He was racing to win. You really can't compare races side by side like this because different paces were set.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 5:08 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:he didn't stock sham, sham stocked him.
That's what he did to Sham for the first third of the Belmont, and obviously it worked out perfectly.
big red had the 2 post and the jockey saw an opening on the rail and took it. Sham stocked him on the rail.
you an't stock a horse that you're on inside of
Posted on 6/9/15 at 5:17 pm to tigerpawl
The splits tell the tale.
Pharoah ran 5 claimer splits for the first 1/2 of the race.
113.4 is ridiculously slow. Forget Secretariat, this horse couldn't run with Risen Star who ran 3/4 in 111.4 and ran the great filly Winning Colors into the ground.
There was no speed in the race. And no one in there tried to mess with him. They ran their race, but there were no rabbits...a very compliant group.
Give the horse credit for being on his game for all 3 races, but he's nothing near an all time great.
Alydar, Riva Ridge, Spectacular Bid, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence and many more would have drilled this horse.
Pharoah ran 5 claimer splits for the first 1/2 of the race.
113.4 is ridiculously slow. Forget Secretariat, this horse couldn't run with Risen Star who ran 3/4 in 111.4 and ran the great filly Winning Colors into the ground.
There was no speed in the race. And no one in there tried to mess with him. They ran their race, but there were no rabbits...a very compliant group.
Give the horse credit for being on his game for all 3 races, but he's nothing near an all time great.
Alydar, Riva Ridge, Spectacular Bid, Easy Goer, Sunday Silence and many more would have drilled this horse.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 6:15 pm to Overbrook
the point is, you're crucifying the horse becuase he didn't have to run hard to beat the other horses. That's.. that's not very smart.
Was big reds / Slews / Affirmed even Alydar's perforamnces BETTER than pharaohs? of course. no one in their right mind would say otherwise.
But big red doesn't run 1:59 flat if sham didnt' run 1:59 2/5ths, Affirmed does not run like he did if alydar is not right there with him every stride and if those horses were not there you would not be calling them all time greats either is my point
Racehorses are a lot like presidents in the sense that the situation has to be there for a president, or in this case, a race horse, to be great. Calling a horse GREAT and saying he's BETTER than another horse are 2 totally different things.
Was big reds / Slews / Affirmed even Alydar's perforamnces BETTER than pharaohs? of course. no one in their right mind would say otherwise.
But big red doesn't run 1:59 flat if sham didnt' run 1:59 2/5ths, Affirmed does not run like he did if alydar is not right there with him every stride and if those horses were not there you would not be calling them all time greats either is my point
Racehorses are a lot like presidents in the sense that the situation has to be there for a president, or in this case, a race horse, to be great. Calling a horse GREAT and saying he's BETTER than another horse are 2 totally different things.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 6:47 pm to lsupride87
So I don't know anything about horses, but was this year it? Like AP won't race these three races again?
Posted on 6/9/15 at 7:04 pm to The Pirate King
The Triple Crown is only for 3 year olds. AP will never be a 3 year old again in May and June.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 7:44 pm to vengeanceofrain
Do you think that Sham might have won a triple crown if not for Secretariat? He was second to Secretariat in the Derby and Preakness. Sham may have been second in the Belmont, if he had ran his race instead of trying to run stride for stride with Secretariat.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:08 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Im sorry but that isnt speculation. He was not really ever given the whip, and he had a ton left when crossing the line. He was still gaining speed
I don't know a lot about horse racing but I was wondering why the jockey was still whipping his arse right toward the end when it was clear he was going to win easily.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:09 pm to tigerpawl
No horse, no horse is close to the race horse Secretariat was. AP is a very solid race horse, and won the TC, might help revive racing for a while.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:10 pm to KosmoCramer
If Secretariat hadn't won the triple crown that year, Sham would. It's a shame they had to race against each other.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:16 pm to tigerpawl
It's funny AP was pushed the entire race and still couldn't run faster while Secretariat was basically running by himself and continued to increase speed until the very end.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:19 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
No horse, no horse is close to the race horse Secretariat was.
Lol
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:22 pm to tigerpawl
Why can't people just accept and rejoice in the fact that they were able to witness a triple crown winner? Instead yall fee the need to compare them and attempt to discredit the amazing accomplishment by the horse.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 8:27 pm to tigerpawl
Browsed through 6 pages and just wanted to stop to say that this thread is an unmitigated disaster.
This post was edited on 6/9/15 at 8:28 pm
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:02 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Thats why Man O War is such a beast. There is no strategy to beat him. None. Red was a beast, but 5 different times out of 21 he lost. MOW was 20-1, with his only loss being because they started the race when he had his back towards the starting line And he still almost won
This!
Also, Man O' War routinely carried more weight than Secretariat and in his races he very seldom was ran hard down the stretch due to being so dominant.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:10 pm to tigerpawl
Anyone that thinks AP could hold Secretariat's jock is a complete moron.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:12 pm to KosmoCramer
quote:
Lol
You laugh, but I have yet to meet someone in the horse industry around here that have seen both run that will tell you with a straight face that American Pharoah (and several others) was a better Triple Crown horse than Secretariat. I tend to take their word for it.
Posted on 6/9/15 at 9:12 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:Agreed. Horses don't even wear jocks. And even if they did wear jocks, the no opposable thumb thing would make it an interesting task. But I guess he could just use his mouth.
Anyone that thinks AP could hold Secretariat's jock is a complete moron.
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