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re: If LSU finishes this season unranked
Posted on 11/19/14 at 10:53 am to Emiliooo
Posted on 11/19/14 at 10:53 am to Emiliooo
quote:It's also hard because it wasn't so long ago that those elite levels of success were not out of LSU's reach. Now we reach for mid-level success and hope for the best. Tomorrow, will be simply be happy to be ranked at all?
It's hard to reason that we should redefine what we see as success when you see what success is with other programs.
0
Posted on 11/19/14 at 10:56 am to Smalls
quote:
Personally, I think that is a terrible attitude. We have to keep fighting, improving facilities, increasing the recruiting budget and staff, etc. IMO, the goal of the LSU football program should be to be a Top 10 program nationally.
I guess I was unclear. After the success of the previous decade, LSU elevated itself as a program and should raise it's definition of success going forward.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 10:56 am to Emiliooo
quote:
It's hard to reason that we should redefine what we see as success when you see what success is with other programs.
What other programs? I'm genuinely asking this.
Obviously, things look rough right now because LSU did not finish the '11 season and came up short in '12 and '13 and are having a shitty season this year.
But the Tigers are not fully three seasons removed from what most considered at the time one of the greatest runs during the regular season any team had ever made and a third trip to the national championship game in less than a decade.
So what other programs have been more successful than LSU, other than BAMA? I don't mean flash in the pan programs that have suddenly emerged, or returned to dominance after having been gone forever...I mean long term consistent winning?
None of the above means I'm happy with the CURRENT state of the program or the direction (or lack thereof) of what's being called offense in Baton Rouge...but how can someone not call our program successful after this run? And if we aren't, outside of BAMA, who the hell is?
Posted on 11/19/14 at 10:57 am to ccomeaux
quote:
how does 7 divide evenly into whole seasons ?
You beat me to it
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:05 am to sportsfan
It isn't like 7 is a completely arbitrary number. Or maybe...
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:06 am to dgnx6
quote:
This is flawed. Most of those years a loss came to the bcs title winner. We usually would beat majority of teams in the top 10. Look at 2012 for example. Were there really 13 teams better than LSU? i could easily say without one suspended player we could have won the title. But it wasnt just that, we had 22 scholarship players out for the UF game that we lost, without the oline in shambles we win. Hell we would have beat ND, we did beat tamu, could have beat usc, fsu, kstate, ohio state. Louiville looked good, uga was good, bama was good oregon was good and we lost to clemson.
we're talking about a span of 7 seasons. When excuses span that wide of a time frame they lose efficacy.
In the past seven seasons LSU has finished ranked among the 10 best teams twice, or 28.5%. 71.5% of the time they did not. LSU is basically a borderline top 15 program in that time period. It is the early Mike Archer/ Gerry Dinardo years without the losing seasons.
The problem with that is that there have been 2 national titles since Archer/Dinardo, but LSU higher ups seem content with knocking on the top 15 like it's the mid 90's. LSU will never be Alabama, but they can be Florida State in terms of status and expectations.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:12 am to olgoi khorkhoi
FSU has out recuited lsu for two decades. Just the sheer population numbers mean we will never have as many top tier recruits in our own back yard like FSU has.
Im not making excuses for 2008 and 2009, which were obvious rebuilding years. 2010, top 10 team, 2011 we beat everyone we played. 2012 unlucky, but not many teams were better than us and no i dont see much diff between a top 10 finish and being # 14 when you barely lose to the bcs title winner and barely lose on the road to another top 10 team and cream another top 10 team on the road.
We play one of the hardest schedules year in and year out.
You just arent going to convince me the likes of baylor, ucf, tamu, usc, kstate, stanford, and louisville have better programs than LSU.
Im not making excuses for 2008 and 2009, which were obvious rebuilding years. 2010, top 10 team, 2011 we beat everyone we played. 2012 unlucky, but not many teams were better than us and no i dont see much diff between a top 10 finish and being # 14 when you barely lose to the bcs title winner and barely lose on the road to another top 10 team and cream another top 10 team on the road.
We play one of the hardest schedules year in and year out.
You just arent going to convince me the likes of baylor, ucf, tamu, usc, kstate, stanford, and louisville have better programs than LSU.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 11:15 am
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:13 am to olgoi khorkhoi
I really dislike the argument that many have tried to use about our program by saying "at least we are better than we were in the 80s 90s etc" Yes we are better now than we were then, but we are not better than we were at the turn of the century. You have to make that your new standard if you want to remain an elite program. Getting complacent or judging success based on your worst years is not going to keep us elite.
I also dislike the CLM is our greatest coach ever argument. He is a great recruiter, but terrible game manager and talent developer.
I also dislike the CLM is our greatest coach ever argument. He is a great recruiter, but terrible game manager and talent developer.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 11:14 am
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:18 am to CoachChappy
quote:
I also dislike the CLM is our greatest coach ever argument. He is a great recruiter, but terrible game manager and talent developer.
he is a great recruiter, but you are telling me these 17-18 year old kids are ready to go to the NFL out of hs? bullshite.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:21 am to CptBengal
quote:
Chavis
is a great coach. the others two should go.
Great coaches have to have great players, right?
Our QB play is awful so the entire offense is awful=bad coaching
Cameron was pretty good coach last year and we had a very good QB and great WR's and tailback all in the NFL now.
The issue is are coaches playing the right guy at the right time?
Beckwidth completely changed the defense since he took over for Welter
People were calling for Chavis job early in the season "He needs to go"...
The point is, we have great coaches, we just don't have all the pieces to be a great team
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:21 am to CoachChappy
quote:
really dislike the argument that many have tried to use about our program by saying "at least we are better than we were in the 80s 90s etc"
What's up with all of these strawman arguments?
quote:
Yes we are better now than we were then
Yeah no shite!
quote:
but we are not better than we were at the turn of the century.
Please provide your analysis there, bud. Show us how hard the SEC west was relative to the rest of the nation. Are you fricking serious?
quote:
You have to make that your new standard if you want to remain an elite program
Ok. How about this? Over that same 7 year span LSU has finished in the top 25 in the BCS standings 5 fricking years. Only team that is better is Alabama with 6. The average of the SEC West is 2.5. We are more elite than Auburn, Texas A&M, Ole Miss, Mississipi State etc.
quote:
I also dislike the CLM is our greatest coach ever argument
Are you six? It's been well documented that this is a difficult argument to prove or disprove.
quote:
He is a great recruiter
Agreed.
quote:
talent developer.
How many guys made it to the NFL? You don't think they were ready when they came out of high school did you?
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:40 am to CptBengal
quote:
I hope this is sarcasm
It is not, just a little known fact.
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 11:41 am
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:42 am to ApexTiger
quote:
eople were calling for Chavis job early in the season "He needs to go"...
The point is, we have great coaches, we just don't have all the pieces to be a great team
Chavis coached his side of the ball to be better.
Miles has failed with the O.
His butt buddy, Peveto, has failed with ST.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:51 am to LSUANDY25
Les' best season since 2007 was 2011.
In that year, the SEC East was a joke and outside of the top 3, the SEC West was a joke.
LSU was a very good team that year, but the SEC was not strong that year.
In that year, the SEC East was a joke and outside of the top 3, the SEC West was a joke.
LSU was a very good team that year, but the SEC was not strong that year.
Posted on 11/19/14 at 11:58 am to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
It is the early Mike Archer/ Gerry Dinardo years without the losing seasons.
Damn near impossible to argue with this kind of logic.
quote:
LSU will never be Alabama, but they can be Florida State in terms of status and expectations.
Which Florida St? The program that finished pretty much every year in the top 5 or the one that's on a 20+ game winning streak? Or the one that sucked arse in between the 2?
Posted on 11/19/14 at 12:13 pm to dgnx6
quote:
Were there really 13 teams better than LSU?
When you lose to freaking Clemson in the Peach Bowl, you don't deserve a top 10 ranking.
quote:
2013 again were there really 13 teams better than us? Baylor? osu? UCF? Clemson? Mizzou? we destroyed auburn.
We lost 3 games last year. Do you really think a team with 3 losses that didn't win their conference should be top ten?
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 12:13 pm
Posted on 11/19/14 at 1:37 pm to Choctaw
quote:
Miles, Cam, and Chavis should all be fired. clean house
good lord
Posted on 11/19/14 at 1:55 pm to Choctaw
quote:
i don't think you know this...but Miles has just as much say in the defense as the offense
So how does that work when facing a hurry-up offense? Chavis (in the booth) communicates to Miles and then Miles to the defensive captain? Seems like the play would be over before the captain got the signal--if Miles had to approve. I am not sure how they do it, but it seems like there is a faster method being used (headsets in helmets or signals from a player or assistant coach on the sidelines? I don't remember Miles giving signals to the defense.).
Posted on 11/19/14 at 2:30 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
What Do You Mean....IF
Posted on 11/19/14 at 2:37 pm to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
In the past seven seasons LSU has finished ranked among the 10 best teams twice, or 28.5%. 71.5% of the time they did not
Here are a list of teams that were in the top ten more than twice in that time span.
Alabama - 6
Oregon - 6
Ohio State - 5
Boise State - 4
Stanford - 4
Florida - 3
South Carolina - 3
TCU - 3
I count 8 teams, a couple of which I think LSU is easily better than as a program.
Lets look at how many teams finished in the top 25 more times than LSU in that time frame.
Alabama - 7
Oregon - 7
Oklahoma - 6
I count 3. Sounds Like LSU is doing as well or better than virtually all other FBS schools to me over the arbitrary time frame you selected.
This is based on BCS rankings, which does not take into account bowl game outcomes, and the current college football playoff rankings.
Just my take. I know its been a disappointing and frustrating year but this is still an elite program, IMO, particularly if we win at aTm and win our bowl game (whatever crapfest that ends up being).
Not a great season by any stretch but I think it is what a lot of people expected. I saw far more 6-8 win predictions on the rant than 9 or higher. I think next year is the year if we can maintain a decent O-Line.
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