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Message
re: Cull buck?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 10:56 am to AlxTgr
Posted on 11/10/14 at 10:56 am to AlxTgr
quote:
That's simply false.
Would you care to expand on this....
Take an authority of your choosing. I'll roll with Dr. James Kroll and Karl Miller since they are founding members of QDMA and considered an authority on the matter.
Kroll's controlled experiments proved a few things including 1) racks grow in a predictable pattern from one year to the next 2) these patterns hold true for whitetail deer across North America 3) age is the single most important factor in producing quality bucks 4) the "shoot all spikes because they are genetically inferior" adage is patently false and that by time spikes reach maturity their racks vary little from deer who had 3/4 or more points at one year old. (See "Spike Wars" circa 2010)...
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 10:58 am
4
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:03 am to wiltznucs
That rack pictured could belong to a 1.5 year old or a 5.5 year old. The body cannot belong to a deer less than 3 year old. Gut, goozle, neck, nose, head all point to it being a deer with a few years behind it. Just MHO from hunting deer around here.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:05 am to wiltznucs
quote:
IMHO, he's two years or younger. His rack doesn't show any of the mass or junk points you typically see in deer reaching that 4-5 year mark
With that ewe neck and sagging back, I wouldn't say he is a youngster. I see a decent amount of mass to those horns to think he is at least in his 3rd rack.
If you have better looking bucks out there I'd call that a cull.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:09 am to LSUballs
Is he ever gonna be a 140.... probably not. but I don't think he's 3 yet. neck and shoulder area scream young buck to me. yeah he's fat but that is not a tell tale sign of maturity. by any of the criteria I use I would say he's not mature thus not (yet) a cull buck.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:23 am to ElDawgHawg
These were 2 year old bucks when I got pictures of them. That op buck looks st least a year older than these.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:30 am to wiltznucs
quote:Yup
Kroll's controlled experiments proved a few things including 1) racks grow in a predictable pattern from one year to the next 2) these patterns hold true for whitetail deer across North America
quote:Yup
2) these patterns hold true for whitetail deer across North America
quote:Yup
3) age is the single most important factor in producing quality bucks
quote:Yup.
4) the "shoot all spikes because they are genetically inferior" adage is patently false and that by time spikes reach maturity their racks vary little from deer who had 3/4 or more points at one year old. (See "Spike Wars" circa 2010)...
Look here for the things to look for. Notice where body attributes appear and what is said about antlers.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:46 am to AlxTgr
Someone posted a link a while back on deer that looked like culls but had pictures of that same deer the next year...some were culls but some grew nice racks the year after. I thought that was interesting if someone could find it.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 11:48 am to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
Why can't hunters learn that you can't judge deer by their horns. You have to go by what their body tells you and not even look at the horns. That body says 3.5yrs old any where in the south. A 2.5yr old has a much slicker neck and body.
Yes it needs to be shot if you are culling for genetics.
1+
Posted on 11/10/14 at 1:20 pm to offshoretrash
quote:
A 2.5yr old has a much slicker neck and body.
Yep. I would shoot it. Earlier posts are correct in that you d need to know your area, but based on the photo alone, he looks 3.5+
Posted on 11/10/14 at 1:29 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Make some rice
Posted on 11/10/14 at 1:34 pm to LloydChristmas
quote:
Body size and face suggest he is full grown if that's the case needs to be taken out IMO.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 3:21 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
Yep
Posted on 11/10/14 at 3:55 pm to wiltznucs
quote:
Kroll's controlled experiments proved a few things including 1) racks grow in a predictable pattern from one year to the next 2) these patterns hold true for whitetail deer across North America 3) age is the single most important factor in producing quality bucks 4) the "shoot all spikes because they are genetically inferior" adage is patently false and that by time spikes reach maturity their racks vary little from deer who had 3/4 or more points at one year old. (See "Spike Wars" circa 2010)...
Yeah, but what does all this have to do with that deer being a 3.5yr old?
If there wasn't differences in growth rates and sizes all deer would look the same. Go out to the hill country in Texas and tell me that nutrients and genetics doesn't make a difference in horn size. Even with in a local herd there will be differences in antler size. You comment makes no sense. But the one thing in common no matter the nutrients and genetics of the antlers the body will age the same.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:25 pm to offshoretrash
never ever age a buck by looking at the horns.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 4:46 pm to offshoretrash
You are clearly the expert. I'll defer to your superior intellect and experience. Be damned with them Scientist folk. What the frick do they know?
Tell ya what OP, you kill that deer and get it jawbone aged by your local Biologist. If it's over 2 1/2 years old I'll buy every OB member a cold one.
Tell ya what OP, you kill that deer and get it jawbone aged by your local Biologist. If it's over 2 1/2 years old I'll buy every OB member a cold one.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 5:21 pm to wiltznucs
quote:You haven't posted anything from any scientific folk that supports you. The stuff you quoted does not say what you think it says.
You are clearly the expert. I'll defer to your superior intellect and experience. Be damned with them Scientist folk. What the frick do they know?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 5:21 pm to wiltznucs
quote:
You are clearly the expert. I'll defer to your superior intellect and experience. Be damned with them Scientist folk. What the frick do they know? Tell ya what OP, you kill that deer and get it jawbone aged by your local Biologist. If it's over 2 1/2 years old I'll buy every OB member a cold one.
Even if I agree with you?
Posted on 11/10/14 at 5:28 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
I would give him one more season
Posted on 11/10/14 at 5:43 pm to AlxTgr
Your right. Don't mind me. Bellies are the most effective method of judging deer. And looking for them deep tracks when they step in mud, that's good too.
Don't waste your time with racks. The fact this deer scores less than 60 inches and yet has a huge belly shouldnt raise any alarms. Well nourished deer seldom show good antler development. These are unrelated factors. Especially at 3.5 years when most whitetails are nearing their prime and even the smallest whitetail subspecies like the Coues will nearly score 100 inches. This deers narrow width, lack of mass and immature face should all be disregarded since the belly is large and possibly simply distended due to eating fermented berries or grain.
Yall are right. This deer is ancient.
Don't waste your time with racks. The fact this deer scores less than 60 inches and yet has a huge belly shouldnt raise any alarms. Well nourished deer seldom show good antler development. These are unrelated factors. Especially at 3.5 years when most whitetails are nearing their prime and even the smallest whitetail subspecies like the Coues will nearly score 100 inches. This deers narrow width, lack of mass and immature face should all be disregarded since the belly is large and possibly simply distended due to eating fermented berries or grain.
Yall are right. This deer is ancient.
Posted on 11/10/14 at 5:46 pm to wiltznucs
quote:
His rack doesn't show any of the mass or junk points
I see a couple junk points around his bases. I would bet a good amount of money this deer is 3.5.
This post was edited on 11/10/14 at 5:48 pm
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