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Message
re: Bottom line -- you can't win without QB play
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:35 am to Ice Cold
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:35 am to Ice Cold
quote:
To his credit, Miles has tried to make changes and adapt.
Really??
Our red zone offense consists of running plays up the middle followed by desperation lobs to Malachi Dupre. Where are the changes when we used to do the same stuff with Terrence Toliver?
2
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:36 am to Rex
quote:
Joshua Dobbs and Kyle Allen went into very hostile atmospheres as freshmen, excelled, and won... by passing the ball... frequently. The attitude of THEIR head coaches? You're our quarterback, we recruited you to do something you're about to do. Do it.
There's a lot of truth to this. Harris was given the start against Auburn but asked to run a very conservative offense. Miles is scared, he plays over-conservative, doesn't display confidence in his QBs to actually be a QB, and we've all seen the result.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:37 am to Ice Cold
Now is the time to start rotating the quarterbacks and start passing the ball 60-70% of the time. We may take our lumps in the remaining games, but we may just start developing a passing game that will carry into the Spring and maybe, if we're lucky, we will be refining a passing game in Spring training next year.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:39 am to c on z
quote:
Sims and Marshall should not be in that discussion.
It is truly a shame when Marshall a db and Sims a rb look more like Peyton Manning throwing the ball than a kid we recruited as a qb.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:45 am to mauser
The reason he only throws fly routes on the sideline is that he either can't read the middle of the field or Cam won't let him. Which I guess is the same thing. No TE elites and no Diarse! Jennings may not be capable of that quick decision making. Many other young QB are.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:45 am to Rex
I was speaking specifically about making staff changes.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:46 am to TaderSalad
quote:
Cost them the game.
AU's D couldn't stop up a toilet. Every game AU has lost their D cost them games.
I can't believe how fans can sit there and watch an entire game and blame players over two or three plays when a whole aspect of their team sucks.
I bet you blame Quinn last night too.
You know Jennings had 23 more passes that fell incomplete other than those throws to Quinn. Cooper dropped 4 balls last night too. But at lease he had the ball thrown to him in the general zip code for most of his catches.
Jennings has been consistently bad. He averages 9 completions per game. 9. That's great for Navy or Georgia Tech.
Ice Cold is right. You can still win 8-10 games with sub par QB or even a one dimensional offense.
But you won't win a Championship without an efficient passing attack.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:47 am to Ice Cold
quote:
the SECW, you have Prescott, Marshall, Wallace, Sims, and now Allen. Only one is a Heisman candidate, and the rest have flaws. But they all have above average QB skills -- ability to throw the ball, read defenses, execute the game plan, and in most cases to run when called upon. Nationally, you have Mariota, Barrett, Boykin, Winston, Petty and others.
I think Harris could easily fit in with these guys, can't be sure at this point because he doesn't play. He had a bad game against Auburn, so he sits, and sits and sits.
An argument can be made that we were winning with Jennings since that Auburn game, but I think we win all those games with Harris also, and most likely win last night.
On the subject of recognizing, developing, and utilizing talent, why is that that 50 - 100 message board guys saw that Welter needed to be replaced by Beckwith, and the coaching staff couldn't see it? They trot Beckwith, Adams and Harris out from day 1 we might be 9-1 right now.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 8:54 am
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:49 am to Ice Cold
This is the issue, Miles likes a certain type of QB (ala JJ), he wants them to run some and pass. However, with our offense, he has not found that type of QB. HS and College have changed the landscape on him and the QB he wants are hard to find.
HS is moving to the spread option; it is a passing version of the option run. The QB doesn't need to know alot of plays and can run. There is a reason they are tough to find in the NFL. The other thing is there are limits on an athlete in College, they have school and football. They do not get them 24/7 like the pros. We really need to reassess what we want in a QB and what we are asking them to do.
With that being said. The NFL and College is a dink/dunk league. If a QB can't throw short to intermediate routes, he shouldn't be playing. We are trying to be the Oakland Raiders throwing the long ball. It is disappointing that we cannot find a guy from LA who can complete a pass. Somebody is doing it.
The common denominator here is Miles. He is essentially Al Davis without the prickly disposition. We need to quit focussing on athleticism and start focusing on intelligence. We need a QB who can transition to several different offenses if we are going to stay with our current scheme. There also has to be a "want" to throw it down the middle. We are losing because we are easy to decipher and our coach likes it that way and opposing coaches do as well. How many players have come out and stated they new what LSU was going to do. We were excited with Ole Miss because we completed passes that we never do.
Think about this; it took them two weeks to come up with that crap last night.
HS is moving to the spread option; it is a passing version of the option run. The QB doesn't need to know alot of plays and can run. There is a reason they are tough to find in the NFL. The other thing is there are limits on an athlete in College, they have school and football. They do not get them 24/7 like the pros. We really need to reassess what we want in a QB and what we are asking them to do.
With that being said. The NFL and College is a dink/dunk league. If a QB can't throw short to intermediate routes, he shouldn't be playing. We are trying to be the Oakland Raiders throwing the long ball. It is disappointing that we cannot find a guy from LA who can complete a pass. Somebody is doing it.
The common denominator here is Miles. He is essentially Al Davis without the prickly disposition. We need to quit focussing on athleticism and start focusing on intelligence. We need a QB who can transition to several different offenses if we are going to stay with our current scheme. There also has to be a "want" to throw it down the middle. We are losing because we are easy to decipher and our coach likes it that way and opposing coaches do as well. How many players have come out and stated they new what LSU was going to do. We were excited with Ole Miss because we completed passes that we never do.
Think about this; it took them two weeks to come up with that crap last night.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:51 am to Rex
quote:
Neither Jennings nor Harris were considered chopped liver when we recruited them out of high school.
Joshua Dobbs and Kyle Allen went into very hostile atmospheres as freshmen, excelled, and won... by passing the ball... frequently. The attitude of THEIR head coaches? You're our quarterback, we recruited you to do something you're about to do. Do it.
What sort of confidence and performance can we expect from OUR quarterbacks when we pass, for the most part, as something we'd rather not do?
Could not agree more. No QB can be successful when your number one priority from the first snap is to limit mistakes. Every great QB that has ever played has mistakes. There is always going to be that risk of that in any game. However, Miles is so focused on limiting mistakes that he is absolutely willing to forgo giving his QB a real chance to make plays in the passing game or develop into a successful QB.
The problem lies 100% on Les Miles. This is the 5th out of 6 years that LSU has been abysmal in the passing game. In that span you have had 5 QBs; 3 OCs, and one common denominator. Until he he willing to trust the passing game and be willing to live with the mistakes that come with it, it's going to be the same story
Posted on 11/9/14 at 8:54 am to Skillet
quote:I thought the play calling was outstanding. The execution was the problem. When Jennings made the right decisions he was too often let down by receivers who did not make seemingly routine catches. Unfortunately, Jennings has limitations with respect to his accuracy, but more importantly his ability to recognize what is happening anywhere but his primary receiver.
Two weeks to prepare for a home game against Bama, and our QB and offense looked like total garbage?
John Elway once said his job was to make plays on third down. Neither Jennings or Harris has demonstrated the ability to make plays on third down.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:00 am to Ice Cold
Agreed, however I think the solution was put in place when Cam came aboard. His first recruit was Harris, and he hasn't had time yet. Our choice of QB talent has been horrible. Stars aside, because great recruiting comes when coaches know WHICH 3 or 4 star to recruit and which to pass on.
I suspect that LSU uses more of its scarce practice time on the running game, and this will continue to result in a less sophisticated passing game. However, this should be offset somewhat by the fact that passing is easier when you have a dominant running game.
I'm hoping to see great improvement from 2014 to 2015.
I suspect that LSU uses more of its scarce practice time on the running game, and this will continue to result in a less sophisticated passing game. However, this should be offset somewhat by the fact that passing is easier when you have a dominant running game.
I'm hoping to see great improvement from 2014 to 2015.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:01 am to PasadenaTiger
quote:
Jennings may not be capable of that quick decision making. Many other young QB are.
Generally with quick feet comes slow thinking. That's what Miles prefers, which is why all the throwing-thinking QB's transfer.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:01 am to Poodlebrain
Both OBJ and Landry had alot of initial drops. The year before was pretty bad. So our young receivers will have some drops. The problem is as was stated, we do it so little that when we pass it has to be caught. It is usually a 3rd and long, etc. We set the players up to fail. We need to be more balanced. Jennings can't do that.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:03 am to Alt26
QB play definitely is cumulative of talent, coaching, play calling, and execution. LSU seems to be lacking in all phases.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:04 am to Poodlebrain
Jennings has barely had the opportunity to demonstrae his ability to strap on his helmet.
Give the kid a legit shot. Horrible to not let him play in Tiger stadium
Give the kid a legit shot. Horrible to not let him play in Tiger stadium
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:05 am to emanresu
I dont think jennings is stupid. The problem is our qbs arent given ownership of the offense. Are they even allowed to audible to what they want? Let them have some input, tailor the offense to what they do well.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:06 am to BRgetthenet
quote:
Agreed
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:08 am to tiger94gop
Bama just did (win without particularly good QB play). And don't forget we lost Zach Lee to baseball and then Gunner Kiel to chestlessness, so we had recruited two who were supposed to be 'all that' and ended up with zero. But I agree it's extremely painful to watch the very slow progression of our QBs.
Posted on 11/9/14 at 9:10 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Unfortunately, Jennings has limitations with respect to his accuracy, but more importantly his ability to recognize what is happening anywhere but his primary receiver.
Hammer ...meet nail...
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