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re: WWII buffs: let's talk about Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:27 am to Jim Rockford
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:27 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
No, the biggest German failure was a diplomatic one, the inability to bring Spain into the Axis fold.
Sorry, but Germany's biggest strategic blunder was the invasion of Poland, which set off World War II. Only a madman could imagine Germany winning another war against France, Britain, Russia and the United States. A madman like Hitler.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:28 am to Jim Rockford
Not being able to tap the occult.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:34 am to Jim Rockford
Strategic - Oil. Perhaps declaring war on US.
Tactical- there were many, but the halt at Dunkirk was huge.
Tactical- there were many, but the halt at Dunkirk was huge.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:35 am to Jim Rockford
Hitlers biggest blunder was thinking he had more war waging knowledge than his generals...Russia is but one example of this...he repeatedly ignored men who had fought in WWI as officers....if you remember, Hitler was like a Corporal during WWI...he was basically a messenger boy...he did not have the prowess, knowledge, educataion, nor experience to lead an army and it showed in the end...
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:45 am to Jim Rockford
The war was lost when Hitler was unable to defeat the UK in the Battle of Britain.
You can also go back to the Evacuation of Dunkirk. If Germany had been able to capture the BEF, things may have been different.
You can also go back to the Evacuation of Dunkirk. If Germany had been able to capture the BEF, things may have been different.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 7:46 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 8:05 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
I'm currently re reading Ziemke's work "Moscow to Stalingrad" from the Army Historical Series.
In the segment regarding Finland, Ziemke's research makes a couple of things clear.
During the 1941 months between July and late November, the USA was a neutral power, but, was involved in sending military and economic aid to the Soviet Union via the port of Murmansk, which is near Finland. While still neutral, the USA threatened Finland with a warning that any obstruction of that US aid would wreck US Fin relations. At about that time, Britain declared war on Finland.
After the USA entered the war, Britain and the US continued very intense diplomatic threats and pressure to "persuade" Finland to limit its war effort against the Soviet Union.
My point is this, we can logically deduce that Spain and Franco were both under the same kind of diplomatic pressure from the UK and US. Spain's geographical location was much more exposed to UK and US air/naval forces than was Finland's.
Add to the above the fact that there's some evidence that the German Abwehr Intelligence Service, headed by Canaris, might have been playing a double game to keep Spain neutral. Canaris and other Abwehr figures were quite anti-Hitler/Anti-Nazi.
It might have been tough to bring Spain in as a German ally no matter what Hitler's diplomacy could muster.
Germany's biggest strategic blunder was Economic. Germany's military had great breadth in that it contained a diverse variety of very competent combat arms that practiced effective combined arms tactics. The problem was that this quality breadth lacked DEPTH. It lacked depth in that it possessed insufficient capacity for sustained total war.
There were not enough of these great war weapons and trained troops to sustain anything but a short war. Not only that, but, German industry wasn't mobilized for maximum war production effort until after Albert Speer became Minister of Armaments. Speer took that position around the time of the Battle of Stalingrad.
So, that's my 2 cents. Good thread.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 8:11 am to Jim Rockford
As is often the case with poor outcomes, Hitler's biggest blunder was his focus on the emotional rather than the rational. That is to say, he cared more about his racist ideologies than a cogent strategic approach to winning a war.
For example, when you are fighting a two front war, why waste finite resources (including human capital) on transporting and murdering a group of people that did not impact the war effort?
Additionally, he did not go total war nor use a strategically sound military approach against the British. Why? He viewed them as Germanic offspring and therefore unworthy of his cleansing efforts. Hitler knew the Brits came from Germany originally and this was more important to him than the necessity to defeat the Western threat before obliterating the Slavic Rus to capture living space.
When you are in a war, resources, strategy and tactics of a country must be concentrated on achieving victory at the expense of anything else, including ridiculous romantic notions of cultural superiority. It's downright foolish to do otherwise, as the best way to advance that superiority is to win victory and then deal with the genocide in the aftermath if that's what you care about.
For example, when you are fighting a two front war, why waste finite resources (including human capital) on transporting and murdering a group of people that did not impact the war effort?
Additionally, he did not go total war nor use a strategically sound military approach against the British. Why? He viewed them as Germanic offspring and therefore unworthy of his cleansing efforts. Hitler knew the Brits came from Germany originally and this was more important to him than the necessity to defeat the Western threat before obliterating the Slavic Rus to capture living space.
When you are in a war, resources, strategy and tactics of a country must be concentrated on achieving victory at the expense of anything else, including ridiculous romantic notions of cultural superiority. It's downright foolish to do otherwise, as the best way to advance that superiority is to win victory and then deal with the genocide in the aftermath if that's what you care about.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 8:27 am to Jim Rockford
Hitler's biggest mistake was not being aborted before birth
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:01 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
It would have caused quite a battle at Gibraltar (again), but I don't know about this being dispositive. Spain wasn't as strong as Italy (at least on paper) and Italy was a net negative for Hitler.
No - you're part right and part wrong about the Russian thing. He should have taken Britain - THEN turned East. Maybe he thought we would stay out if he left the U.K. alone - maybe he sincerely believed he could ally with the Brits in the long run. In any event, not taking away the staging base for the U.S. (and the U.K. navy) before attacking the U.S.S.R. was probably the biggest blunder.
quote:
Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
Beyond Austria and Czechoslovakia, he didn't need much lebensraum for the short-term or even mid-term. He invaded the U.S.S.R. for Ukrainian farmland and oil.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:02 am to Jim Rockford
fricked with America
/thread
/thread
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:04 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/IconLOL.gif)
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:04 am to Jim Rockford
No mention of Battle of Britain?
This thread fails
This thread fails
Posted on 8/20/14 at 9:10 am to Jim Rockford
For those who think the Russian invasion was too soon - do you think a peace in the West was possible? Was there any concession Hitler could have realistically given to get a negotiated settlement with Britain?
Posted on 8/20/14 at 10:52 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
Totally disagree with you on the Spain stuff.
They had fought a horrible, bloody civil war, that had just ended when WWII began.
The damage done to Spain in that war took two generations to reapair, as well as the insfrastructure damage nationwide.
At no point from 1939-45 were they able to be a major player in WWWII, although I know they did send some volunteers to help the German effort on the Russian front, but it was negligible.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:03 am to Jim Rockford
another big blunder was letting the british escape from dunkirk.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:06 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Bombing Pearl Harbor.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 11:07 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 11:08 am to Jim Rockford
Hilter not listening to Rommel when he requested fortifications on the Normandy beach. He instead kept them back to protect his own interests. I wonder what would have happened if we failed to breach Normandy. I mean, we had the biggest invasion fleet in a god awful weather. Losing this battle would be a major blow to the Allied war effort.
Thank god we had the Midterrian and Africa battlegrounds to train our really GREEN armies. This was our first time in history that we really incorporated Air, ground, and navy forces to attack enemy front. If we went in Europe without this experience, we would have got our asses handed to us by the German veterans serving up there.
Thank god we had the Midterrian and Africa battlegrounds to train our really GREEN armies. This was our first time in history that we really incorporated Air, ground, and navy forces to attack enemy front. If we went in Europe without this experience, we would have got our asses handed to us by the German veterans serving up there.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 12:52 pm to Jim Rockford
Uh.. thinking they were just going to walk into Russia and take everything, especially in the cold months
Posted on 8/20/14 at 2:20 pm to Jim Rockford
Spain would've been a second Italy. More of a hindrance to the Third Reich than a help.
Posted on 8/21/14 at 2:23 pm to Jim Rockford
You're forgetting about Gibralter.
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