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WWII buffs: let's talk about Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:16 pm
No, not the invasion of Russia. That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
No, the biggest German failure was a diplomatic one, the inability to bring Spain into the Axis fold. Spain did provide some nominal assistance on the Eastern Front, but stayed officially neutral, and Franco played both sides, depending on who had the upper hand.
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
No, the biggest German failure was a diplomatic one, the inability to bring Spain into the Axis fold. Spain did provide some nominal assistance on the Eastern Front, but stayed officially neutral, and Franco played both sides, depending on who had the upper hand.
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
42
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:17 pm to Jim Rockford
Print the shirts.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:18 pm to Jim Rockford
nb4 Darth
nb4 Darth downvotes
nb4 Darth downvotes
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:19 pm to Jim Rockford
USA would have kicked the shite out of anybody. It didn't really matter what they did.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
The way he carried it out was quite blunder-y. I don't believe that it was inherently doomed to fail.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:20 pm to Grizzley
Well, invading Russia was the biggest foul. So, if you discount that, I would say Hitler being born? Invading Russia was the down fall.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:21 pm to Jim Rockford
If only those mean Jews woulda liked Hitler's shitty paintings...
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:21 pm to jose canseco
A three-pronged attack and raping/murdering/pillaging Soviet subjects that hated Stalin (potential allies to his cause) was the true blunder IMHO.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
No, not the invasion of Russia. That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
How does this exclude it from being a blunder?
Regardless of if it was the plan all along, they did it before their Western front was secure.
That is one of the main aspects that killed them: the two front war that opened up. They gambled that the UK wouldn't get assistance from the US and lost thanks to Pearl.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm to Jim Rockford
Why is it if you make a thread about some super-specific Nazi stuff ("Who was Hitler's favorite barber?") you will get replies, but my general History Discussion threads never went anywhere?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:24 pm to Kafka
I would be glad to post in them. I don't remember seeing one 
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:24 pm to Jim Rockford
I am no history buff. I say two blunders cost Hitler:
1) Not being able to sack Britain 100% before lebensbraum
2) Japan not attacking eastern Russia as planned/expected
3) oh, and also pissing off USA
1) Not being able to sack Britain 100% before lebensbraum
2) Japan not attacking eastern Russia as planned/expected
3) oh, and also pissing off USA
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:24 pm to Volvagia
quote:
That is one of the main aspects that killed them: the two front war that opened up.
This.
There is no discussion after this point.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:29 pm to GoHoGsGo06
Spain was worn out. Took decades to recover. Failure to develop long range bomber really hurt
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:31 pm to Jim Rockford
Interesting perspective. I can send where you're coming from but to be honest, from a military capability standpoint, Spain would have been even more of a burden on the Germans than their Italian Allies were. Spain had just come out of a bloody civil war and was in no position to make any serious contribution to Germany.
And speaking of the Italians, I believe they actually were the Germans biggest blunder. I base my opinion on the fact it was the Italians collapse in North Africa that made it necessary for the Germans to divert much needed resources to the Med theater. On top of this it was also due to the Italian fiasco in Greece and Albania that forced the Germans to divert resources to the Balkans and more importantly pushed back the original start date of Operation Barbarossa from May to June. This delay meant that the Germans reached Moscow in a full blown Russian winter wile the Russians had time to bring reinforcements from Siberia along with evacuating a huge chunk if it's industrial capacity the safety of Urals. Had operation Barbarossa kicked off at the start of May as was originally intended, the Germans may have actually been able to take Moscow and force the Soviets to sue for peace. But by delaying it for that key month, they wasted any chance if victory they had.
And speaking of the Italians, I believe they actually were the Germans biggest blunder. I base my opinion on the fact it was the Italians collapse in North Africa that made it necessary for the Germans to divert much needed resources to the Med theater. On top of this it was also due to the Italian fiasco in Greece and Albania that forced the Germans to divert resources to the Balkans and more importantly pushed back the original start date of Operation Barbarossa from May to June. This delay meant that the Germans reached Moscow in a full blown Russian winter wile the Russians had time to bring reinforcements from Siberia along with evacuating a huge chunk if it's industrial capacity the safety of Urals. Had operation Barbarossa kicked off at the start of May as was originally intended, the Germans may have actually been able to take Moscow and force the Soviets to sue for peace. But by delaying it for that key month, they wasted any chance if victory they had.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:31 pm to jose canseco
They couldn't kill the Russian sniper in enemy at the gates.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:34 pm to Jim Rockford
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:35 pm to Jim Rockford
I think the answer is fairly simple.
Germany should have captured the oil in the south rather than marching to Moscow/Stalingrad. They could have cut off the power in the country, rather than invading during the winter....which has never, ever been successful.
Germany should have captured the oil in the south rather than marching to Moscow/Stalingrad. They could have cut off the power in the country, rather than invading during the winter....which has never, ever been successful.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:38 pm to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
Germany should have captured the oil in the south rather than marching to Moscow/Stalingrad. They could have cut off the power in the country, rather than invading during the winter....which has never, ever been successful.
Well the original plan was for the war to be over before the onset of the Russian winter. Where they screwed up was wasting weeks bailing out Italy in the Balkans instead of launching into Russia on the original timetable.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:39 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:47 pm to Darth_Vader
Damn, Darth. You have some haters.
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