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Started By
Message
Things for Christians to consider in regards to immigration.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:25 pm
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:25 pm
I was once very infatuated with illegal immigration. I wanted everyone deported. I was very angry foreigners were able to use our ER's, driving up cost. I was angry that they there children were able to use our schools, and that their families were able to receive public assistance.
My attitude about the issue began to change when I listened to a speech by Milton Friedman. His point, which is repeated on the board many times, is you can have open borders or you can have open welfare, but you can't have both.
I realized then that I was really angry over the welfare state, and I was pretty much powerless to stop the machine. I had directed my anger towards those who were just acting like most human beings do, instead of being angry at those who incentivized them to do so.
Right now the focus is on the unaccompanied, immigrant children, and I'm sad to see how some have reacted. I even read something this morning (I don't know if it's verified) of some members of a militia threatening to shoot children who cross the border.
For one, I'm pretty certain that Jesus doesn't care about the borders of nations. His Kingdom is not of this world, and if you are a child of God, then your citizenship is in The Kingdom, and you're just a temporary visitor here. In the most real sense, you're not an American. Jesus does very much care about how you love your neighbor.
Jesus also cares very much about children. When you welcome little children, you're welcoming him. Glenn Beck got a lot of flack for saying that we should open our hearts to them, and then sent food, toys and clothes to the children being held in custody.
If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.
This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this. I think we get caught up in worldly things and we lose focus on what's important.
My attitude about the issue began to change when I listened to a speech by Milton Friedman. His point, which is repeated on the board many times, is you can have open borders or you can have open welfare, but you can't have both.
I realized then that I was really angry over the welfare state, and I was pretty much powerless to stop the machine. I had directed my anger towards those who were just acting like most human beings do, instead of being angry at those who incentivized them to do so.
Right now the focus is on the unaccompanied, immigrant children, and I'm sad to see how some have reacted. I even read something this morning (I don't know if it's verified) of some members of a militia threatening to shoot children who cross the border.
For one, I'm pretty certain that Jesus doesn't care about the borders of nations. His Kingdom is not of this world, and if you are a child of God, then your citizenship is in The Kingdom, and you're just a temporary visitor here. In the most real sense, you're not an American. Jesus does very much care about how you love your neighbor.
Jesus also cares very much about children. When you welcome little children, you're welcoming him. Glenn Beck got a lot of flack for saying that we should open our hearts to them, and then sent food, toys and clothes to the children being held in custody.
If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.
This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this. I think we get caught up in worldly things and we lose focus on what's important.
This post was edited on 7/13/14 at 3:42 pm
23
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:28 pm to Patrick O Rly
Jessus needs to toss down some of them loaves and fishes.
And, I don't "hate" your children.....but, i don't want them in my house, either.
I am sick to death of the "do it for the children" garbage.
No offense to you. You have every right to your point of view and it is just as valid as mine
And, I don't "hate" your children.....but, i don't want them in my house, either.
I am sick to death of the "do it for the children" garbage.
No offense to you. You have every right to your point of view and it is just as valid as mine
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:30 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.
Great post.
This applies to many other contemporary political skirmishes. Some on this board and elsewhere seem almost gleeful when a teenager in Chicago is murdered because it gives them a talking point with regards to gun control.
Others either cheer for or feel no sorrow for the deaths of Israeli and Palestinian children.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:32 pm to Patrick O Rly
Excellent post Patrick O Rly.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:33 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
My attitude about the issue began to change when I listened to a speech my Milton Friedman. His point, which is repeated on the board many times, is you can have open borders or you can have open welfare, but you can't have both.
This is all it comes down to in the grand scheme and looking at the bigger picture. It's why republicans are dreaming that if they go for amnesty, they'll get a voting bloc and everything will be fine for this country and it won't send us into financial ruin.
I feel for these children and illegal immigrants, I really do. But their presence in our country with the welfare system being as it is right now is completely unacceptable. Socialism and open borders do not mix at all. Even socialistic European countries understand this and they protect their borders to the fullest extent.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:34 pm to Patrick O Rly
or you suggesting that we should open the border for children. I agree with the wrong view of hating children or resenting them but does this mean we need to open up the boarders?
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:35 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
Patrick O Rly
All in all, that was a good post and very heartfelt. I like it.
This post was edited on 7/13/14 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:36 pm to Patrick O Rly
Awesome post and just what many on the right needs to hear. Electric fences and deportation squads are not a small government solution to anything.
You can't have open borders in a welfare state. But the pro liberty solution is to address the latter moreso than the former.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:38 pm to Patrick O Rly
I was for land mines 20 years ago. I'm still for land mines. No one has convinced me that it won't work. Cheap, efficient and nobody gets hurt.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:47 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
I realized then that I was really angry over the welfare state, and I was pretty much powerless to stop the machine. I had directed my anger towards those who were just acting like most human beings do, instead of being angry at those who incentivized them to do so.
Right now the focus is on the unaccompanied, immigrant children, and I'm sad to see how some have reacted. I even read something this morning (I don't know if it's verified) of some members of a militia threatening to shoot children who cross the border.
For one, I'm pretty certain that Jesus doesn't care about the borders of nations. His Kingdom is not of this world, and if you are a child of God, then your citizenship is in The Kingdom, and you're just a temporary visitor here. In the most real sense, you're not an American. Jesus does very much care about how you love your neighbor.
Jesus also cares very much about children. When you welcome little children, you're welcoming him. Glenn Beck got a lot of flack for saying that we should open our hearts to them, and then sent food, toys and clothes to the children being held in custody.
If your political ideology or worldview causes you to resent or hate children, then it's not worth anything at all.
This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this. I think we get caught up in worldly things and we lose focus on what's important.
This. This. This.
I am politically conservative and think that we should have secure boarders. But, Conservatives who are getting upset about these kids are ridiculous. Great post, Patrick O Rly. Great post. I agree completely.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:55 pm to Patrick O Rly
Fine.
End the welfare state an d we can talk.
Until then, don't let them in and kick the rest out.
End the welfare state an d we can talk.
Until then, don't let them in and kick the rest out.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 3:59 pm to Patrick O Rly
Yep, I've noticed that a lot of "conservatives" are reversing themselves on this issue just because it's kids. Very disturbing. They rounded up a bunch of kids, brought them to the border and had them all make droopy eyed faces to tug on everyone's heart strings.
I didn't surrender my second amendment rights after Sandy Hook and I'm not supporting amnesty and open borders over this shite. It's mass manipulation. frick these people.
I didn't surrender my second amendment rights after Sandy Hook and I'm not supporting amnesty and open borders over this shite. It's mass manipulation. frick these people.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 4:11 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
This isn't directed at anyone particular on this board, but I felt moved today to share this.
Ok, but just because you want them deported doesn't mean you "hate children."
This post was edited on 7/13/14 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 7/13/14 at 4:18 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
My attitude about the issue began to change when I listened to a speech by Milton Friedman. His point, which is repeated on the board many times, is you can have open borders or you can have open welfare, but you can't have both.
That is true, the problem is the left believes you can have both. It's going to come to a head if we don't do something about it.
I say reform both.
LC
Posted on 7/13/14 at 4:57 pm to Patrick O Rly
This is comparable to the welfare situation in this country. When is a person or country expected to take care of itself or It's own? People that Jesus helped in the bible were of no fault of their own destitute because of a death or infirmity.
In the case of welfare here, people make choices throughout life that affects their future status. Whether that involves getting an education, getting work training, using birth control, choosing a husband, etc. Those decisions and others contribute largely to a persons future situation.
As far as Mexico and other countries, many have adequate natural and human resources to care for their own, but because of historically bad choices and corruption, they have allowed themselves to be relegated to third world status. Some would say its unfair to the citizens that their government officials are corrupt, but these government officials came from their own communities and are made up of their own. Why aren't they responsible for cleansing corruption from their own ranks.
With that being said, would Jesus want to take from people who made good choices and put themselves in position to succeed to give to those who either refuse to help themselves, or those who had a chance to stunt corruption in their midsts but didn't? Giving to those who refuse to work or help themselves is stealing.
In the case of welfare here, people make choices throughout life that affects their future status. Whether that involves getting an education, getting work training, using birth control, choosing a husband, etc. Those decisions and others contribute largely to a persons future situation.
As far as Mexico and other countries, many have adequate natural and human resources to care for their own, but because of historically bad choices and corruption, they have allowed themselves to be relegated to third world status. Some would say its unfair to the citizens that their government officials are corrupt, but these government officials came from their own communities and are made up of their own. Why aren't they responsible for cleansing corruption from their own ranks.
With that being said, would Jesus want to take from people who made good choices and put themselves in position to succeed to give to those who either refuse to help themselves, or those who had a chance to stunt corruption in their midsts but didn't? Giving to those who refuse to work or help themselves is stealing.
This post was edited on 7/13/14 at 4:59 pm
Posted on 7/13/14 at 5:00 pm to Patrick O Rly
While I agree in principle with your perspective, the truth is the liberal progressive Democrats are getting to have their cake and eat it too. The fact is we DO have a welfare state and open borders by design in order for Dems to secure an even larger minority default voting block. The Pubs can pull their pants down and allow amnesty at every opportunity but the the Dems with a compliant media will always make the liberal progressives the champion of minority welfare.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 5:03 pm to Patrick O Rly
I agree.
I think we should address this issue by securing the borders and then making the legalization process more streamlined. We have to secure the borders tight for drug trafficking reasons even with an open immigration policy.
Then once we do that, give amnesty to the ones already here but do it with stipulations. IF any one of the immigrants commits 5 misdemeanors within 10 years they are deported. They also would not be eligible for any form of welfare for 10 years after amnesty...get a job or accept charity but you're not coming here to live off the taxpayers.
I think we should address this issue by securing the borders and then making the legalization process more streamlined. We have to secure the borders tight for drug trafficking reasons even with an open immigration policy.
Then once we do that, give amnesty to the ones already here but do it with stipulations. IF any one of the immigrants commits 5 misdemeanors within 10 years they are deported. They also would not be eligible for any form of welfare for 10 years after amnesty...get a job or accept charity but you're not coming here to live off the taxpayers.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 5:31 pm to Patrick O Rly
No one hates the children that coming here. But they're not entitled to citizenship.
Above and beyond everything, they're a health risk.
Above and beyond everything, they're a health risk.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 8:22 pm to Patrick O Rly
Jesus did care about people, especially children, but his primary focus wasn't about the physical well-being of people. The reason He came was to save people from their sins and make sure their spiritual well-being was secured by preaching a message of repentance of sins and faith in His sacrificial death for salvation.
So with that context, I think the duty of Christians is to help one another with the preached Gospel message in mind. Even the physical healing that Jesus performed was done to accompany his message of salvation and spiritual health.
I support immigration into this country so that those who seek it can try for a better physical/material life. But that needs to be done within the context of the law. The immigration laws exist to protect the people of this country, and we can see why with an influx of "illegals" coming in with severe health issues that could affect those who already live here. An open border also allows for enemies of this country and its people to easily come in and attack from within, so having some measures for gaining access to the abundance of wealth and well-being is not a bad thing, nor does it lack compassion. It is a very compassionate thing for those who already live here.
So with that context, I think the duty of Christians is to help one another with the preached Gospel message in mind. Even the physical healing that Jesus performed was done to accompany his message of salvation and spiritual health.
I support immigration into this country so that those who seek it can try for a better physical/material life. But that needs to be done within the context of the law. The immigration laws exist to protect the people of this country, and we can see why with an influx of "illegals" coming in with severe health issues that could affect those who already live here. An open border also allows for enemies of this country and its people to easily come in and attack from within, so having some measures for gaining access to the abundance of wealth and well-being is not a bad thing, nor does it lack compassion. It is a very compassionate thing for those who already live here.
Posted on 7/13/14 at 8:23 pm to Patrick O Rly
i disagree a bit, Patrick. These cretins know exactly what they are doing. They are not "forced" to come here for welfare, but they do it willingly. Is a thief any less of a thief if he sees diamonds in a car with the windows rolled down, and steals them?
I'm around these people, I live near the border. They come here and act like they are entitled to our land. They stare at me, they make up a majority of the panhandlers.
I'm around these people, I live near the border. They come here and act like they are entitled to our land. They stare at me, they make up a majority of the panhandlers.
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