re: Police going back to 9mm?

I definetly see why an organization would choose the 9mm over the .40.

quote:

---

Shot placement is most likely going to determine how long the shoot out last. A bullet in the head or center mass is going to end the shoot out, regardless of 9mm or .40.

---

There was a story about a single mother who shot an intruder six (6) times in the face and neck area about two weeks ago. He walked out of the house and got into his car. I believe it was there that he died but the problem is that he could have returned lots of fire. Now, of course this was with a .38 but as lots of people have said, bullet technology has advanced a lot in the past 20 years.

How much less would the intruder have lived if he was shot with a 9mm? What about a .40? See, this is where it matters for the personal owner. Not on the range.

I remember that story. She must have been shooting ball ammo. I just can't see getting hit in the face six times and being able to function. Maybe a few shots just clipped in the ear or something

quote:

---

clipped in the ear

---

Deaf and dumb burglar.

But its the same argument that I made in my CC rant, any gun is better than no gun.

B is 9mm?

Since I'm about to get off duty and go to sleep....


Yes.

A = .40 cal
B = 9mm
C = .45 cal

My opinion from a straight law enforcement perspective, is that given the choice between 9mm and .40 cal is that 9mm is superior. Why?

In the FBI test barriers it penetrates better. Above is the bare gelatin tests. See the barrier tests here. The nine penetrates slightly better through heavy clothing, sheet metal, and glass (especially glass) than the .40 cal. Those are of particular interest because those are the barriers I'm most likely to encounter. Now you are saying, you said the nine is SUPERIOR but you said it only penetrates slightly better. Take into account other issues from a LEO perspective.

1. Number of rounds carried. I can carry more with the 9 over .40.

2. Weight. I can carry more rounds and they weigh less.

3. Cost. They are cheaper. On a department basis this counts. I'll take more live fire training anyway I can get it. Even on my own dime.

4. Recoil. Not from a that person is a pussy perspective, but on the follow up shots perspective.

5. In AL we qualify from 25 yards and in. Where I work we train farther out than that. 9 shoots flatter. If you are shooting farther you are in a bad spot to begin with till you get to a long gun, make it easier. (.357 sig is the $hit in this discussion, but that is another can of worms)

Pistols are defensive weapons. They punch holes so your marksmanship better have you able to punch the holes where they can do the most good to stop a threat. If I knew in advance I was going to a gun fight I would have my rifle and the debate over pistol caliber would be irrelevant. Just my take.

quote:

---

Am I the only one who doesn't think the .40 recoil is that bad?

---

Nope - but I shot a .45 for years, so my perspective may be skewed. Also, I had thousands of rounds through long guns before I ever fired a handgun. I even shoot hot Cor-bon loads through a Glock 23 and recoil isn't that bad - and would be even more manageable through a heavier gun such as a H&K or Sig gun with steel slides.

quote:

---

Most of the problem is that they're only required to shoot 100 rounds per year, and 90 of those are at 7 yards. Yes, there will be some that shoot on their own, but a bunch don't.

---

That statement is so far from true it is mind boggling.

quote:

---

I agree that they are shitty shooters but what is a big gun?

---

The shooting stats you are referencing generally apply to scenarios where the subject is firing on the police as well. Have you ever been in a gunfight? I assure you it is nothing like the shooting range and you will be nowhere near as accurate. People have a tendency to compare the accuracy of police shootings to military shootings and that is not a valid comparison at all because military shootings nearly always involve long guns. I have been involved in both scenarios and I have shot expert at every agency I have been involved with and I assure you I did not shoot anywhere near expert when rounds were coming back in my direction.

The lack of a permanent wound channel from the 9mm is highly discouraging. The 40 while not pentatrating as far, did considerably more damage than the 9mm. The fact that you left off what type of ammo used is cool too.