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re: Did Saints waste two draft picks on MI22
Posted on 11/7/11 at 3:05 pm to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 11/7/11 at 3:05 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
At best you'd get a 5th or 6th round draft pick for PT
1
Posted on 11/7/11 at 3:09 pm to St Augustine
you're probably right
Posted on 11/7/11 at 3:20 pm to H-Town Tiger
If they get a 6th for him I'd be shocked. He's not Willis McGahee.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 3:39 pm to CajunFootball
Barring Ingram blowing up, it was a waste of next year's first round pick.
Pierre Thomas is worth a 5th round pick right now, and he's at least as good as Ingram if not better than Ingram. I didn't like the pick at the time for what we gave up, still not liking it much.
Pierre Thomas is worth a 5th round pick right now, and he's at least as good as Ingram if not better than Ingram. I didn't like the pick at the time for what we gave up, still not liking it much.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:16 pm to josh336
It is way too early to determine whether or not we wasted draft picks on this guy. He has played in 7 games. Can we let him at least finish his rookie season before we kill the front office on this pick? They have been somewhat trustworthy in the past 5 years.
Our situation was that we probably knew that Reggie wouldn't be back this year at his contract amount. Ivory is a stud, but I don't think that anyone on this board wants to hold their breath on him staying healthy all year if used as the work horse. PT is very versatile, but also has an injury history. Hamilton has never proven himself in the NFL.
I'm sure that we could make all kinds of comparisons to former NFL first rounders, but I just wanted to look at Emmitt Smith's first 7 games to see how they compared. I have heard Ingram compared to Emmitt more than any other RB from the past.
Emmitt through 7 games in 1990:
88 rushes/321 yards/3.64 ypc/3TDs
Emmitt's rookie year
Ingram through 7 games in 2011:
85 rushes/329 yards/3.9 ypc/3TDs
Ingram's rookie year
Obviously there are numerous other factors involved, but let's not all jump off a cliff over our rookie RB who has done nothing but come in and worked his butt off to help the team.
The Saints looked like they corrected their blocking issues this past game and we were able to run much more effectively.
Our situation was that we probably knew that Reggie wouldn't be back this year at his contract amount. Ivory is a stud, but I don't think that anyone on this board wants to hold their breath on him staying healthy all year if used as the work horse. PT is very versatile, but also has an injury history. Hamilton has never proven himself in the NFL.
I'm sure that we could make all kinds of comparisons to former NFL first rounders, but I just wanted to look at Emmitt Smith's first 7 games to see how they compared. I have heard Ingram compared to Emmitt more than any other RB from the past.
Emmitt through 7 games in 1990:
88 rushes/321 yards/3.64 ypc/3TDs
Emmitt's rookie year
Ingram through 7 games in 2011:
85 rushes/329 yards/3.9 ypc/3TDs
Ingram's rookie year
Obviously there are numerous other factors involved, but let's not all jump off a cliff over our rookie RB who has done nothing but come in and worked his butt off to help the team.
The Saints looked like they corrected their blocking issues this past game and we were able to run much more effectively.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:38 pm to TexasTiger6777
quote:
I'm sure that we could make all kinds of comparisons to former NFL first rounders, but I just wanted to look at Emmitt Smith's first 7 games to see how they compared. I have heard Ingram compared to Emmitt more than any other RB from the past.
I don't think performance is what most people are taking issue with.
it's buyers remorse... signing Sproles' and seeing his huge impact, PT running great, and getting Ivory back has a lot of fans realizing that maybe we gave up too much.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:40 pm to TexasTiger6777
No one said he wasn't a good back. It's not about his production, but how much you paid for that spot.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:46 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
if you figure 5 guys are going to get hurt every year maybe.
well, Pierre and Ivory both have a history of getting injured.
Deshawyn Wynn, Julius JOnes, Ladell Betts??
are these the guys that round out the 5 guys getting hurt, in your head?
They signed Sporles in late July, only after they had traded Reggie Bush to fill that specific role. Not exactly a true RB in this regard.
quote:
-1 first rounder is different than being -1 4th.
instead of picking in the first in 2012, we had an extra in 2011. Its not that hard to understand. Essentially you arent losing a 1st round pick. Only the 2nd round pick we gave up.
quote:
You use 2 picks on someone he needs to be more than servicable.
again, you are only minus 1 'net' pick. The 2nd rounder we traded away in the 2011 draft.
"more than serviceable" RBs run for 1,100, 1200 yards every year. Don't give me that bullshite.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:49 pm to CajunFootball
quote:
, but how much you paid for that spot.
they essentially gave up a 2nd round pick in 2011 in order to have a 1st round pick in 2011 instead of 2012.
people that complain that "we gave too much" are pretty clueless.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:51 pm to Mouth
\
me and a few others said the same things after the draft, no buyers remorse, RB is just to fungibale a position today to waste 1, let alone 2 draft picks on.
quote:
it's buyers remorse
me and a few others said the same things after the draft, no buyers remorse, RB is just to fungibale a position today to waste 1, let alone 2 draft picks on.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:56 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Deshawyn Wynn, Julius JOnes, Ladell Betts??
are these the guys that round out the 5 guys getting hurt, in your head?
no that's what you get stuck with having to pick up guys in midseason, that's rare. If you are worried about Thomas and Ivory staying healthy you can draft a RB, there were several good prospects available in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds or as FA's.
quote:
instead of picking in the first in 2012, we had an extra in 2011. Its not that hard to understand. Essentially you arent losing a 1st round pick. Only the 2nd round pick we gave up.
Fine, you gave up a 2nd, still too much to get a RB.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 4:57 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
again, you are only minus 1 'net' pick. The 2nd rounder we traded away in the 2011 draft.
It took almost three pages for somebody to post this. We didnt give up 2 picks. We got one in return.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:01 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
If you are worried about Thomas and Ivory staying healthy you can draft a RB, there were several good prospects available in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds or as FA's.
Ingram was the consensus #1 RB on the board. It's not hard to see why they fell for him. To see him sitting there at 28 I think they had to pull the trigger. It's not like it was premeditated. They say an opportunity and took it.
I think it was a pretty fair deal when put into context.
This post was edited on 11/7/11 at 5:03 pm
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:04 pm to Tigerbait337
quote:
Yes. You don't draft a RB in the first round in this day and age, especially with the type of offense the Saints run.
You also don't judge a RB's value after 9 games in his first season
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:14 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
Ingram was the consensus #1 RB on the board
that doesn't really mean anything, could just be a weak RB class. He wouldn't even be the consensous #1 RB from Alabama this year.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:16 pm to H-Town Tiger
it means something if the Saints had a mid-1st grade on him and he was available at 28.
Richarson has been great, but how quick people forget how great Ingram was in his Heisman winning year.
quote:
He wouldn't even be the consensous #1 RB from Alabama this year.
Richarson has been great, but how quick people forget how great Ingram was in his Heisman winning year.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:23 pm to H-Town Tiger
that doesn't really mean anything, could just be a weak RB class. He wouldn't even be the consensous #1 RB from Alabama this year.
TR may be one of the best RBs to come out of college in recent memory. But Ingram is the first Heisman throphy winner in Alabama history. Ingram is no scrub in a weak RB class.
We gave up our first rounder next year to get the back that the FO felt was too good to let get away. Hopefully we are giving away a pick around the late 20s to early 30s. And hopefully MI turns out to be a great player for the Saints for the future.
TR may be one of the best RBs to come out of college in recent memory. But Ingram is the first Heisman throphy winner in Alabama history. Ingram is no scrub in a weak RB class.
We gave up our first rounder next year to get the back that the FO felt was too good to let get away. Hopefully we are giving away a pick around the late 20s to early 30s. And hopefully MI turns out to be a great player for the Saints for the future.
This post was edited on 11/7/11 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 11/7/11 at 5:49 pm to TigerRantMan99
quote:
Did Saints waste two draft picks on MI22
why do people still think we gave up two picks?
Posted on 11/7/11 at 6:21 pm to Lester Earl
I understand that it only cost you a 2nd round. What I'm saying is that for what you got, the cost(2nd rd) was too much. The Saints are not a power running team as much as people think they are. Yes Thomas has a history of being hurt, but you have to expect that between him, Ivory, whoever you get for Bush(they didn't know it was going to be Sproles) will be able to stay healthy enough to get a RB in a later round. DeMarco Murray (3rd Rd), Stevan Ridley (3rd Rd) both serviceable backs.
Posted on 11/7/11 at 6:39 pm to Deactived
quote:
why do people still think we gave up two picks?
Because we did. We just got one back in the deal so net value was 1 but techincally we did give up 2.
Still the cost of acquiring Ingram was 2 picks, the 2nd rounder and the one actually used to select him.
The cost of acquiring cam jordan 1 pick, the cost of Ingram-2 picks.
This post was edited on 11/7/11 at 9:07 pm
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