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re: Did Saints waste two draft picks on MI22
Posted on 11/9/11 at 8:26 am to H-Town Tiger
Posted on 11/9/11 at 8:26 am to H-Town Tiger
quote:
No matter how you want to slice it, they gave up a pick or used 2 picks on one guy. whether its giving up a 2 and using next year's 1 or giving up next years 1 moving this years 2 up 20 whatever spots, its still 2 picks.
This is understandable; however, that doesn't means the pick(s) were wasted, which is the point of this thread right?
The Saints front office obviously saw need to draft the player due to a lack of a running game (which numbers dropped from '09) Coming off that playoff lose in Seattle.
Another thing is going to the offseason, our runningbacks situation was up in the air. Thomas was a free agent and was injuried, Ivory was injuried (and just came back), and Reggie had to restructure his contract. With all those Uncertainties I understood why they drafted Ingram (which happens to be the best runningback coming out of the draft).
1
Posted on 11/9/11 at 2:02 pm to Cydewayz
quote:i think the resigned Thomas before the lockout and draft
Thomas was a free agent and was injuried
Posted on 11/9/11 at 6:27 pm to TigerRantMan99
When I look at the depth at RB, and the ones that have floated around that we could have picked up, then look at the fact that Scott Shanle is apparently among the best 3 LB's we have, I really, really wonder.
Posted on 11/9/11 at 8:43 pm to Icansee4miles
quote:
When I look at the depth at RB, and the ones that have floated around that we could have picked up, then look at the fact that Scott Shanle is apparently among the best 3 LB's we have, I really, really wonder.
Exactly. To have great depth at one position at the sacrifice of horrific talent at another is not a good way to build a team. Bad players lose games more than good players win them.
Posted on 11/9/11 at 9:05 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
i think the resigned Thomas before the lockout and draft
They did... but due to that injury, Ivory injury, and the fact Reggie probably wouldn't take a pay cut. You have to plan for the uncertainties. Which is why I understand them taking Ingram.
If we didn't get Sproles and didn't pick Ingram. What would you say?
Posted on 11/9/11 at 9:50 pm to Cydewayz
quote:
They did... but due to that injury, Ivory injury, and the fact Reggie probably wouldn't take a pay cut. You have to plan for the uncertainties
Dude, if you are unsure about Thomas's injury, then why in the hell do you sign him to a 4 fricking year $12M contract? I know they could cut him and eat just the signing bonus, but still its freaking stupid to sign a guy to a 4 year deal, then use 2 draft picks on the same position.
You can plan for uncertainties by drafting any one of about 10 guys in the 3-5 round. There are also guys available as free agents (like Sproles) EVERY year. Its not like draft day is the only time you can get some one.
Posted on 11/9/11 at 10:10 pm to Cydewayz
quote:
If we didn't get Sproles and didn't pick Ingram. What would you say?
Wut? First of all, as a fan, I don't know all the guys available as free agents, but I'm pretty sure the Saints FO do, or they should, if not they should be fired. Sproles was a FA, that was known, there were several others. If they could find guys like Mike Bell during summer camp 2 years ago, why can't they find someone else? Next are you some how under the impression that Ingram was the ONLY RB in the draft? I said at the time, I'd rather keep the extra pick and draft in no particular order: Williams, Leshoure, Hunter, Murray, Ridley, Rodgers, Lewis
Posted on 11/10/11 at 12:28 am to TigerRantMan99
at all the idiots questioning the Mark Ingram pick. Next, when he starts burying defenses we'll have the same people coming over here claiming how they knew all along Ingram was a beast and the 2 pick trade was a smart move. Fact is all of our other backs are role players, none can carry the load full time. Ivory is the closest but is made of glass. Ingram can and will. He is still a rookie and learning the ways of the NFL.Posted on 11/10/11 at 1:22 am to TigerRantMan99
Simple answer? Yes. In our offense, HB is not something you spend a first round pick on, unless it's a special talent like Adrian Peterson or say, Trent Richardson in my opinion.
It was a spur of the moment type ordeal where I think our front office was excited to see Ingram still available in the late first and they jumped on it. Sure, we had injuries, but if the Saints planned to shop for backs in free agency (Sproles) then I don't understand it.
Even if Ingram was elite like Ray Rice or MJD (and I'm not saying he can't be) but we still have Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, Reggie Bush (at the time) and then Joique Bell had a monster pre-season. Not to mention this crowded backfield is on a pass heavy offense.
Regardless, I still support Mark Ingram and hope he does become an elite back in the league, but I believe we could have used that pick for something more needed, like a LB or T.
It was a spur of the moment type ordeal where I think our front office was excited to see Ingram still available in the late first and they jumped on it. Sure, we had injuries, but if the Saints planned to shop for backs in free agency (Sproles) then I don't understand it.
Even if Ingram was elite like Ray Rice or MJD (and I'm not saying he can't be) but we still have Pierre Thomas, Chris Ivory, Reggie Bush (at the time) and then Joique Bell had a monster pre-season. Not to mention this crowded backfield is on a pass heavy offense.
Regardless, I still support Mark Ingram and hope he does become an elite back in the league, but I believe we could have used that pick for something more needed, like a LB or T.
Posted on 11/10/11 at 7:33 am to xxKylexx
I just want to re-address the original question placed.
Did Saints waste two draft picks on MI22?
Waste was the word used.
NO.
To early to tell IMO.
Did Saints waste two draft picks on MI22?
Waste was the word used.
NO.
To early to tell IMO.
Posted on 11/10/11 at 7:55 am to H-Town Tiger
Top rookie runners 2011
FWIW
1 DeMarco Murray DAL RB 80 10.0 539 6.7 67.4 1 91T 22 27.5 6 2 0
2 Daniel Thomas MIA RB 82 16.4 314 3.8 62.8 0 15 13 15.9 0 0 2
3 MARK INGRAM NO RB 85 12.1 329 3.9 47.0 3 20 23 27.1 1 0 1
5 Delone Carter IND RB 78 8.7 313 4.0 34.8 2 42 15 19.2 2 1 2
6 Kendall Hunter SF RB 48 6.0 217 4.5 27.1 1 44 9 18.8 2 1 0
7 Stevan Ridley NE RB 31 3.9 190 6.1 23.8 1 33T 8 25.8 3 0 0
8 Roy Helu WAS RB 37 4.6 172 4.6 21.5 0 18 10 27.0 0 0 0
9 Jacquizz Rodgers ATL RB 26 3.2 117 4.5 14.6 0 11 8 30.8 0 0 0
12 Phillip Tanner DAL RB 11 1.8 47 4.3 7.8 1 17 3 27.3 0 0 0
15 Dion Lewis PHI RB 7 1.0 31 4.4 4.4 0 7 1 14.3 0 0 0
16 Johnny White BUF RB 8 1.3 26 3.3 4.3 0 13 1 12.5 0 0 0
17 Taiwan Jones OAK RB 7 0.9 31 4.4 3.9 0 14 1 14.3 0 0 0
19 Alex Green GB RB 3 0.8 11 3.7 2.8 0 8 0 0.0 0 0 0
20 Jamie Harper TEN RB 7 1.0 16 2.3 2.3 0
Die falcons die
FWIW
1 DeMarco Murray DAL RB 80 10.0 539 6.7 67.4 1 91T 22 27.5 6 2 0
2 Daniel Thomas MIA RB 82 16.4 314 3.8 62.8 0 15 13 15.9 0 0 2
3 MARK INGRAM NO RB 85 12.1 329 3.9 47.0 3 20 23 27.1 1 0 1
5 Delone Carter IND RB 78 8.7 313 4.0 34.8 2 42 15 19.2 2 1 2
6 Kendall Hunter SF RB 48 6.0 217 4.5 27.1 1 44 9 18.8 2 1 0
7 Stevan Ridley NE RB 31 3.9 190 6.1 23.8 1 33T 8 25.8 3 0 0
8 Roy Helu WAS RB 37 4.6 172 4.6 21.5 0 18 10 27.0 0 0 0
9 Jacquizz Rodgers ATL RB 26 3.2 117 4.5 14.6 0 11 8 30.8 0 0 0
12 Phillip Tanner DAL RB 11 1.8 47 4.3 7.8 1 17 3 27.3 0 0 0
15 Dion Lewis PHI RB 7 1.0 31 4.4 4.4 0 7 1 14.3 0 0 0
16 Johnny White BUF RB 8 1.3 26 3.3 4.3 0 13 1 12.5 0 0 0
17 Taiwan Jones OAK RB 7 0.9 31 4.4 3.9 0 14 1 14.3 0 0 0
19 Alex Green GB RB 3 0.8 11 3.7 2.8 0 8 0 0.0 0 0 0
20 Jamie Harper TEN RB 7 1.0 16 2.3 2.3 0
Die falcons die
Posted on 11/10/11 at 9:42 am to Seto Vlatka
quote:
at all the idiots questioning the Mark Ingram pick. Next, when he starts burying defenses we'll have the same people coming over here claiming how they knew all along Ingram was a beast and the 2 pick trade was a smart move.
Go ahead and book mark this if you want. I will never say that, even if Ingram rushes for 1600 yards.
I know its hard for people to grasp this concept, because it seems counter intuitive, but you can not judge decisions AFTER the fact. Everything is clear with 20/20 hindsight. My disagreement with the decision is the same today, as it was on draft night.
quote:
. Fact is all of our other backs are role players, none can carry the load full time.
I see you haven't watched much NFL since 1995. That doesn't matter. You can run effectively without a feature back like the Saints in 2009, Colts in 2006, multiple Patriot teams. The Texans have 2 guys on pace to get 1100 each. One was an undrafted Free Agent, 1 was a 2nd rounder. Thats 2 guys and they only used 1 draft pick, vs 1 guy costing the Saints 2 draft picks. See the difference?
So, for the 50millionth time its not about Ingram. With very, very rare exceptions (just for LE) I do not think you should take a RB in the first round. Under almost no circumstances do i think you use 2 picks above the 4th round on one guy.
Posted on 11/10/11 at 9:44 am to goatmilker
quote:
DeMarco Murray
3rd
quote:
Daniel Thomas
late 2nd
quote:
Die falcons die
:kige:
Posted on 11/10/11 at 3:55 pm to H-Town Tiger
I hate the Falcons and their fans.
Posted on 11/10/11 at 10:47 pm to SuperRemo
quote:
Bad players lose games more than good players win them.
Not true. Have you ever seen Drew Brees or Peyton Manning?
Posted on 11/11/11 at 11:19 am to TigerRantMan99
He is another overrated Heisman winner.
Posted on 11/11/11 at 11:33 am to H-Town Tiger
Still have people in here thinking it was a good pick?
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:19 pm to TigerRantMan99
No. They gave up a 2nd. That's it.
Posted on 11/11/11 at 1:27 pm to whodatfan
quote:
They gave up a 2nd. That's it.
Really? Because they used one to actually draft him, and gave another to be able to draft him. That is two.
Posted on 11/11/11 at 2:34 pm to Dexter1024
quote:
Not true. Have you ever seen Drew Brees or Peyton Manning?
2 examples out of 32 teams.
Think of the 20 something not good QBs who throw pick 6s.
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