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Started By
Message
beekeepers vs biologists...the chinese tallow problem
Posted on 12/29/25 at 9:57 am
Posted on 12/29/25 at 9:57 am
interesting article in the picayune this morning
LINK
LINK
quote:
For years, researchers have studied whether a pair of non-native insects, the beetle and a small moth, should be released in the southeastern U.S. to curb the spread of an aggressive invasive plant, the Chinese tallow tree. Conservationists hate the tree. Beekeepers love it. Releasing the bugs might help protect some of Gulf South’s most endangered ecosystems from being overrun by Chinese tallow, but wiping out the invasive tree could hurt honeybees, which rely on the tallow’s plentiful supply of nectar. And hurting the honeybees could have a ripple effect across the U.S. agricultural sector.
quote:
The beetle, Bikasha collaris, whose larvae eat tallow roots, and the moth, Gadirtha fusca, whose larvae eat its leaves, could help limit its spread, scientists say. (Native to China, neither insect has an English common name.)
quote:i keep bees on my property (two hives) and i just spent the better part of a week ripping out as many chicken trees as i could, barely making a dent though. if youve never had to deal with tallow, its hard to overstate how difficult it is to control. they absolutely cannot be contained without aggressive intervention. and if you sepend any time in the woods, particularly near waterways, you know how bad the problem is
“The goal of a biological control agent,” the scientific term for a species introduced to limit the spread of another, “isn’t eradication,” Abbate said. “It’s to reintroduce the invasive plant to its natural competitors so it won’t be as big of a problem.”
8
Posted on 12/29/25 at 9:58 am to cgrand
quote:
you know how bad the problem is
A house 300 yards from me has a big one in their backyard. I'm constantly pulling up sprouting tallow trees from my flowerbeds. I hate them.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 10:16 am to cgrand
I’m over 50 and don’t remember the world without the dreaded tallow tree and I’d hate to think about the world without honeybees. I’m voting to keep the Chinese tallow tree.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 10:46 am to cgrand
Get rid of the chicken trees and let the chips fall where they may with the honey bees. Bees are non-native and compete with native pollinators. Honey is just sugar especially after heated.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 11:03 am to Turnblad85
quote:
Bees are non-native
By bees, I will assume you mean European Honey Bees. There are native bee species.
quote:
Honey is just sugar especially after heated.
Honey is fructose (around 40%) and glucose (around 30%), along with water (about 17%) and trace elements like enzymes, vitamins, and minerals.
Table sugar (sucrose) is 50% Fructose and 50% Glucose
High Fructose Corn Syrups:
HCFS-42: Contains 42% fructose and 58% glucose (plus some glucose polymers), used in baked goods, cereals, and canned fruits.
HFCS-55: Contains 55% fructose and 45% glucose, primarily used in soft drinks.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 11:14 am to cgrand
I have had a single tallow in both of my last two back yards. As much as they are hated, and I do understand the problem, a single one makes a fantastic back yard tree. Bees galore, bird of many species like the fruit and the shade is perfect.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 2:42 pm to cgrand
Honeybees are not native but an introduced species.
Posted on 12/29/25 at 3:03 pm to cgrand
Why do we keep thinking releasing additional non-native things is ever a fix? We have the best honey here. Leave well enough alone
Posted on 12/29/25 at 3:16 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:neither are European Homo sapiens but both have been on this continent about the same amount of time
Honeybees are not native
the western honeybee adapts itself to the flowering cycles of plants in their area, very unique to pollinators. As industrial agriculture has taken over, particularly in fruit and nut trees, those crops would not survive without the honeybee; it is the honeybee that makes those crop yields possible in the first place
Posted on 12/29/25 at 3:30 pm to RaginCajunz
quote:the point the biologists are making is that Chinese tallow is only an problem without its natural predators present in the system…the moth and beetle they are talking about both evolved alongside tallow in its native habitat, and they keep populations in check. Tallow likewise evolved multiple aggressive reproductive tools to keep up with the predators…balance. The ecosystem here cannot tolerate unchecked tallow spread, there’s nothing stopping it. Its natural predators would in theory keep the spread in check, not eradicate it
Why do we keep thinking releasing additional non-native things is ever a fix?
Posted on 12/29/25 at 5:29 pm to cgrand
quote:
neither are European Homo sapiens but both have been on this continent about the same amount of time
Europeans brought non native honeybees to north america. Native americans refereed to them as white man flies.
quote:
very unique to pollinators.
Not true, many native pollinators can adapt to flowering cycles. But non-native honeybees out compete native pollinators thereby likely reducing their populations. And non native honeybees can't or don't pollinate many native plants. On the contrary, non native honeybees likely increase the spread of non-native plants because native pollinators ignore those non-native plants but honeybees do pollinate them.
quote:
As industrial agriculture has taken over, particularly in fruit and nut trees, those crops would not survive without the honeybee
I understand that honeybees are the de facto pollinator for big industrial farming
This post was edited on 12/29/25 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 12/29/25 at 5:44 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:yes thats what i said
Europeans brought non native honeybees to north america. Native americans refereed to them as white man flies.
neither are NA nativesquote:you mean like...agricultural crops? yes i agree, and we would have not all that much to eat without them
And non native honeybees can't or don't pollinate many native plants. On the contrary, non native honeybees likely increase the spread of non-native plants
Posted on 12/29/25 at 5:57 pm to cgrand
also, back to the point, tallow does not need honeybees at all in order to be pollinated; it is readily pollinated by dozens of other insects and other nectar eaters and can also aggressively spread by root sprouting. to me, tallow is the problem that needs a solution, not honeybees
Posted on 12/30/25 at 2:32 am to cgrand
quote:
the point the biologists are making is that Chinese tallow is only an problem without its natural predators present in the system…the moth and beetle they are talking about both evolved alongside tallow in its native habitat, and they keep populations in check. Tallow likewise evolved multiple aggressive reproductive tools to keep up with the predators…balance. The ecosystem here cannot tolerate unchecked tallow spread, there’s nothing stopping it. Its natural predators would in theory keep the spread in check, not eradicate it
It seems like every attempt to fix a problem like this turns out like the nutria. We bring them in , in part, to fix the invasive water hyacinth introduction. I’m likely under informed about successful such attempts , it just seems ripe for unintended consequences. “We never realized the beetles would also eat x, y, z and more…oops”
Posted on 12/30/25 at 12:33 pm to RaginCajunz
I agree with you to an extent. Nutria is a bad example though…they were imported for the fur trade not to eat water hyacinth (another invasive). Another example of bad outcomes from intentional importation is the cane toad in Australia which was introduced to control a native insect, which backfired spectacularly.
What is being considered is the importation of a species native to the historical range of tallow, now that the tallow is here. Studies suggest that the beetle in particular eats tallow roots and nothing else
and I think we get too caught up in “what is a native”. Environments change, life finds a way. Had the beetle been imported at the same time as the tallow (by Benjamin Franklin no less) perhaps we would not be dealing with the environmental distress the tallow is causing now
What is being considered is the importation of a species native to the historical range of tallow, now that the tallow is here. Studies suggest that the beetle in particular eats tallow roots and nothing else
and I think we get too caught up in “what is a native”. Environments change, life finds a way. Had the beetle been imported at the same time as the tallow (by Benjamin Franklin no less) perhaps we would not be dealing with the environmental distress the tallow is causing now
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:29 pm to cgrand
quote:
Environments change, life finds a way.
Valid point...except that it wasn't the environment changing that allowed tallow to proliferate here. If that were the case, I would agree with you. But it's not, thus why the species is considered introduced and invasive.
Limpkins are a better example of "life finds a way" than tallow is. Those things just showed up here on a whim 5-7 years ago, and they've just made themselves right at home. Nobody brought them here--they just heard that Louisiana had all this untapped escargo hanging around that no one else was gobbling up, and said "let's geaux"...
Posted on 12/30/25 at 8:36 pm to cgrand
quote:
a pair of non-native insects, the beetle and a small moth
quote:
Chinese tallow tree
quote:
honeybees
A battle of non-native, and it could be argued all four are or will be invasive, species. What a mess.
This post was edited on 12/30/25 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 12/30/25 at 9:09 pm to cgrand
I’ll take some of those beetles and moths if it means they’ll control the tallow over here. If you have any insects that will control privet I’ll pay a premium lol
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