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Message
Martin Luther got redpilled 500 years ago
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:34 pm
Its funny how history repeats itself and how Luther's evolution of how he saw Jews mirrors what many Evangelical Christians have gone through recently.
In his early 30s Luther wrote an essay called That Jesus Christ Was Born a Jew that called for kindness, compassion, cooperation, etc with Jews to convert them to Christianity
Later in Luther's life he wrote a much different essay called On the Jews and Their Lies which lamented how stubborn Jews were to accept Christianity and their subversion of the population that actually had a negative effect on the Church and Christian society as a whole. This essay was entirely different, in that he called for coercive measures to make life as a Jew quite hard and to encourage them to leave or convert. Luther actually saw this as a kind of necessary last resort to break the stubbornness of Jewish people to convert at least a few(as opposed to none) and to protect the Christian community. Luther's solutions were quite harsh with it mostly being economic persecution and destruction of their property.
I found this interesting that many of the same exact issues we have with that specific group of people today...have been persisting for centuries. *Also I personally am NOT advocating for Luther's prescribed measures to deal with Jewish community. I also am not condemning them either as that was 500 years ago and the way people lived back then were completely different.
In his early 30s Luther wrote an essay called That Jesus Christ Was Born a Jew that called for kindness, compassion, cooperation, etc with Jews to convert them to Christianity
Later in Luther's life he wrote a much different essay called On the Jews and Their Lies which lamented how stubborn Jews were to accept Christianity and their subversion of the population that actually had a negative effect on the Church and Christian society as a whole. This essay was entirely different, in that he called for coercive measures to make life as a Jew quite hard and to encourage them to leave or convert. Luther actually saw this as a kind of necessary last resort to break the stubbornness of Jewish people to convert at least a few(as opposed to none) and to protect the Christian community. Luther's solutions were quite harsh with it mostly being economic persecution and destruction of their property.
I found this interesting that many of the same exact issues we have with that specific group of people today...have been persisting for centuries. *Also I personally am NOT advocating for Luther's prescribed measures to deal with Jewish community. I also am not condemning them either as that was 500 years ago and the way people lived back then were completely different.
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 12:36 pm
9
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:38 pm to scottydoesntknow
The Israel lobby has literally infiltrated the bulk of American evangelical churches and convinced them that the New Covenant somehow applies to people who live in a nation state founded in 1948 and not followers of Jesus Christ.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:38 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Also I personally am NOT advocating for Luther's prescribed measures to deal with Jewish community. I also am not condemning them either as that was 500 years ago and the way people lived back then were completely different.
That shows a rare wisdom.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:42 pm to scottydoesntknow
So???
Posted on 10/8/25 at 12:57 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
convinced them that the New Covenant somehow applies to people who live in a nation state founded in 1948 and not followers of Jesus Christ.
“I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, “The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness. And this is my covenant with them, that I will take away their sins.”
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.
Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead. Now they are the rebels, and God’s mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share in God’s mercy. For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
Romans 11:25-32
This post was edited on 10/8/25 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 10/8/25 at 1:09 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
I also am not condemning them either as that was 500 years ago and the way people lived back then were completely different.
How are you supposed to get reparation if you don't hold people who lived 500 years ago by todays standards? This is all very confusing.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 6:35 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
So???
There is plenty of historical evidence that you have to question the motives of these people. Its to to say that they must always be distrusted...but rather we need to tread carefully.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:13 pm to scottydoesntknow
Europe replaced Jews with Muslims.
Let’s see how that works out in the end for them.
Let’s see how that works out in the end for them.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:39 pm to scottydoesntknow
This only applies to Christians.
I know it won’t make much difference, but I want to preface what I’m about to say with this:
We absolutely need to be more careful with the secular nation of Israel. We should not be giving them carte blanch in any aspect of our “alliance.” They are not our friends. There needs to be real accountability- both for Israel and US gov- but there is none. At all. That said, my concern is for the hearts of Christians, who are in direct opposition to God’s will, as laid out in scripture. I’m no better, I’m just perhaps more aware of how bad I suck. I’m working on it.
Matthew 6:19-21 NIV
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
What is our motivation regarding the Jews? I’m not saying this applies to ML, as I believe he was more heavenly minded (but still far from perfect) than most Christians are today (myself included). But are we worrying about the Jews salvation? Or, are we worrying about how they make our lives on earth more difficult?
Are the Jews our enemies? What are we supposed to do about that?
Matthew 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Is that what we’re doing? Again, I’m not on my high horse. I’m just as guilty as anyone else. Grace abounds.
Most importantly, regarding the Jews, what does scripture teach us about their future; and our relationship as gentiles?
Got questions.org does a way better job of explaining this than I could. And I know it’s way more complicated than what can be explained here. For brevity, I won’t copy/paste from the article. But I really hope Christians read it. I know that Rome subscribes and teaches “replacement theology,” but (as with many of Rome’s teachings) I think you will have a hard time backing that up with scripture. I’m not here to debate RC/PRO supremacy. I’m just here to ask all Christians where your heart is at.
I know it won’t make much difference, but I want to preface what I’m about to say with this:
We absolutely need to be more careful with the secular nation of Israel. We should not be giving them carte blanch in any aspect of our “alliance.” They are not our friends. There needs to be real accountability- both for Israel and US gov- but there is none. At all. That said, my concern is for the hearts of Christians, who are in direct opposition to God’s will, as laid out in scripture. I’m no better, I’m just perhaps more aware of how bad I suck. I’m working on it.
Matthew 6:19-21 NIV
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
quote:
Luke 9:23
23 And He was saying to them all, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
What is our motivation regarding the Jews? I’m not saying this applies to ML, as I believe he was more heavenly minded (but still far from perfect) than most Christians are today (myself included). But are we worrying about the Jews salvation? Or, are we worrying about how they make our lives on earth more difficult?
Are the Jews our enemies? What are we supposed to do about that?
Matthew 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Is that what we’re doing? Again, I’m not on my high horse. I’m just as guilty as anyone else. Grace abounds.
Most importantly, regarding the Jews, what does scripture teach us about their future; and our relationship as gentiles?
Got questions.org does a way better job of explaining this than I could. And I know it’s way more complicated than what can be explained here. For brevity, I won’t copy/paste from the article. But I really hope Christians read it. I know that Rome subscribes and teaches “replacement theology,” but (as with many of Rome’s teachings) I think you will have a hard time backing that up with scripture. I’m not here to debate RC/PRO supremacy. I’m just here to ask all Christians where your heart is at.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:44 pm to SCLibertarian
quote:
The Israel lobby…
Is fighting for Israel’s real world existence.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:48 pm to dgnx6
quote:
Europe replaced Jews with Muslims.
Let’s see how that works out in the end for them.
Jews have been free to go to Europe for a long time and some countries have asked them to come.
Secular jews and their allies are responsible for Muslims etc going to Europe. You are deluded.
Posted on 10/8/25 at 7:51 pm to scottydoesntknow
quote:
Later in Luther's life he wrote a much different essay called On the Jews and Their Lies which lamented how stubborn Jews were to accept Christianity and their subversion of the population that actually had a negative effect on the Church and Christian society as a whole.
Many European kingdoms, especially the Catholic nations after the reconquest of Hispania, gave the Jews an ultimatum to convert to their brand of Christianity or leave (or to be burned at the stake by the inquisition). In the Latin countries the converted Jews were called “conversos”. Many of them still met in secret to retain their Jewish cultural and religious identity.
Those Jews believed they were breaking the commandments worshipping another god/man. They had a long (fake/ahistorical) history in their scriptures of turning away from God and then receiving the wrath of God for their wickedness and so they were trying to avoid that.
In reality you can’t truly make someone simply change what they believe about a supernatural world for which there is no evidence in the first place. One deeply religious person is going to be incapable of converting another deeply religious person of another faith. Many European Christians realized that which is why many wanted to kill them all.
Many conversos or Jews, wanting to escape their authorities and avoid the inquisition became skilled seafarers, explorers, and merchants. Most sea expeditions such as for searching for other routes to the Indies and China were disproportionately Jewish in the makeup of the crews. Cristoforo Colombo traveled to Castille becoming Cristóbal Colón and an undercover Jew - a converso - and after discovering the new world set up a special colony in Jamaica with the rule that the inquisition was not welcome there. It became a haven for Conversos/ Jews, and when the British took that island, the Jews there were able to practice more openly.
Maybe the moral of the story is anyone should be cautious as to the motivations of a Jew who converts to Christianity, because they might still secretly be an active Judaizer.
Posted on 10/9/25 at 8:06 am to SCLibertarian
quote:
The Israel lobby
I suspect this is something someone with a predilection for antisemitism would say.
In US churches, John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren are more to blame for the theological perspective you’re decrying than some secret Israeli cabal.
Posted on 10/9/25 at 8:28 am to scottydoesntknow
We might say that Luther had a righteous anger against Jews and Muslims for their rejection of Jesus as Lord, but it was especially so with Jews because they were more visible to the German people due to having businesses in Germany and were part of German life.
Something that people get wrong about Martin Luther is that he wasn’t antisemitic or anti-Jew in terms of bloodlines or racial background, but based on religion. He hated that religious Jews blasphemed Jesus by saying He wasn’t the God-man Messiah and denied the truth of the gospel. He was much less tolerant of their anti-Christian beliefs after seeing so many people killed for their faith in Christ during the Reformation.
Luther’s response to the Jews was sinful in his later years and lacked the patience and grace that Paul showed his own kinsmen.
Something that people get wrong about Martin Luther is that he wasn’t antisemitic or anti-Jew in terms of bloodlines or racial background, but based on religion. He hated that religious Jews blasphemed Jesus by saying He wasn’t the God-man Messiah and denied the truth of the gospel. He was much less tolerant of their anti-Christian beliefs after seeing so many people killed for their faith in Christ during the Reformation.
Luther’s response to the Jews was sinful in his later years and lacked the patience and grace that Paul showed his own kinsmen.
Posted on 10/9/25 at 8:28 am to Prodigal Son
quote:
I know that Rome subscribes and teaches “replacement theology,”
“Rome” rejects replacement theology, as can be read in a document called Nostra Aetate from the Second Vatican Council. “Rome”, like all Christian churches and Protestant sects that existed prior to the 1800s, teaches Covenantalism, otherwise known as “fulfillment theology”.
This post was edited on 10/9/25 at 8:33 am
Posted on 10/9/25 at 8:31 am to scottydoesntknow
My magical man in the sky is superior to your magical man in the sky!
Posted on 10/9/25 at 10:39 am to Stitches
quote:
“Rome” rejects replacement theology, as can be read in a document called Nostra Aetate from the Second Vatican Council. “Rome”, like all Christian churches and Protestant sects that existed prior to the 1800s, teaches Covenantalism, otherwise known as “fulfillment theology”.
I’m not going to argue with you about it (much
). I’m just going off of my interactions with RC’s that I know, TBH. But, since you piqued my interest, a brief web search turned up this interesting article from catholicsforisrael.com . In fact, the Church has never officially endorsed this idea. The key term here is officially, for it's undeniable that there has been a long, unofficial tradition of supersessionism in the Catholic Church that goes back to the Church Fathers. Even though supersessionism was never a magisterial, authoritative Catholic doctrine, the absence of an official Catholic teaching on God’s covenant with the Jewish people combined with, at times, widespread anti-Semitic attitudes, led to a pervasive acceptance of replacement theology among Christians throughout history
Like I said, I don’t doubt that Rome officially rejects replacement theology. And, thanks to your information, I will no longer say that Rome teaches it. Officially. My bad. Buuuutttt, you guys (Roman Catholics) might wanna clear that up and spread the word. Because the RC’s that I know 100% believe in replacement theology.
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