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Started By
Message
Why Tombstone is better than Wyatt Earp...
Posted on 8/21/25 at 2:44 pm
Posted on 8/21/25 at 2:44 pm
I've always liked both movies, but Tombstone has always been far and away my favorite. Seen Wyatt Earp numerous times and Tombstone countless. But recently rewatched Wyatt Earp and was thinking about how I probably like more of the Earp/good guys in Wyatt Earp than I do in Tombstone.
For example, I like WE's Wyatt (probably), Virgil, and Morgan better than Tombstone. A hotter Josie. Plus you get the family back story/Dad, Wyatt's first wife, James Earp, and the Masterson brothers are included. The only characters I can say I for sure like better in Tombstone are Doc and Mattie.
Plenty of reasons to like Wyatt Earp better than Tombstone. But, this last rewatch made it click why Tombstone is quite a bit better... The villains.
It took almost an hour and a half for them to introduce any real conflict with Curly Bill, McLaury's, and Ike. By the time the showdown happened you barely had any build up to it.
In Tombstone you know Curly Bill, Ike, and Johnny Ringo are POS from the very first scene and there's conflict and hatred throughout. The showdown and deaths had more of an impact. I know Tombstone is the popcorn movie of the two and Wyatt Earp is the more historically accurate of the two, but it's just not as good. Sorry not sorry.
Dennis Quaid's Doc is severely underrated though. He's pulls off the sickness with perfection. Also Wyatt the ending scene with Wyatt defending the prisoner from the mob is top tier western. Love how the movie ends, letting you know that Wyatts life didn't necessarily play out like he wanted it to, especially financially. He's older and still trying to strike it rich and chasing dreams, but there are still people out there that know all the good he did.
For example, I like WE's Wyatt (probably), Virgil, and Morgan better than Tombstone. A hotter Josie. Plus you get the family back story/Dad, Wyatt's first wife, James Earp, and the Masterson brothers are included. The only characters I can say I for sure like better in Tombstone are Doc and Mattie.
Plenty of reasons to like Wyatt Earp better than Tombstone. But, this last rewatch made it click why Tombstone is quite a bit better... The villains.
It took almost an hour and a half for them to introduce any real conflict with Curly Bill, McLaury's, and Ike. By the time the showdown happened you barely had any build up to it.
In Tombstone you know Curly Bill, Ike, and Johnny Ringo are POS from the very first scene and there's conflict and hatred throughout. The showdown and deaths had more of an impact. I know Tombstone is the popcorn movie of the two and Wyatt Earp is the more historically accurate of the two, but it's just not as good. Sorry not sorry.
Dennis Quaid's Doc is severely underrated though. He's pulls off the sickness with perfection. Also Wyatt the ending scene with Wyatt defending the prisoner from the mob is top tier western. Love how the movie ends, letting you know that Wyatts life didn't necessarily play out like he wanted it to, especially financially. He's older and still trying to strike it rich and chasing dreams, but there are still people out there that know all the good he did.
15
Posted on 8/21/25 at 2:46 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:Does anyone really disagree with this?
Tombstone is better than Wyatt Earp
Posted on 8/21/25 at 2:51 pm to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Does anyone really disagree with this?
It's certainly not the majority opinion, but some do.
I just always thought Tombstone was better simply because Val Kilmer was so great, but on this last re-watch I kind of had a completely different opinion on it.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 3:09 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Wyatt Earp is a better film but Tombstone is the better movie.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 3:11 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I thought Dennis Quaid was great but that's almost it for me. I found Costner to be bland as Wyatt and his brothers (via the writing or acting) were just awful.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 3:18 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I dont think ive ever heard someone suggest otherwise.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 3:22 pm to 615tider
quote:
I found Costner to be bland as Wyatt
I can see this. I enjoyed them both though.
quote:
his brothers (via the writing or acting) were just awful.
Disagree here. Michael Madsen (Virgil) and Linden Ashby (Morgan) were both better than Sam Elliot and Bill Paxton. Ashby over Paxton especially. Ashby was kind of a badass Morgan and had some personality while Paxtons was just kind of soft and bland and also his death scene was a bit of a masterclass on bad acting. I'm not hating on Tombstone, it's legit one of my all time favorite movies, but it had some flaws.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 3:36 pm to 615tider
quote:
I thought Dennis Quaid was great but that's almost it for me. I found Costner to be bland as Wyatt and his brothers (via the writing or acting) were just awful.
I agree with you and, to be fair, Doc is a relatively easy character to crush. Is Kilmer's Doc better than Quaid's? Yes, but it is relatively close in the grand scheme of things.
Back to the broader point - what held Wyatt Earp back?
1. Recall Costner was going to be Wyatt Earp in Tombstone - he left because he butted heads with that film's screenwriter (Jarre). He moved to Wyatt Earp (because he felt the focus should be on the lead character, not an ensemble like in Tombstone) and the project converted from a mini-series to feature film - the picture became laser-focused on Wyatt Earp (understandably so)
2. The cast, while fantastic on an individual basis, seemed to lack the chemistry of Tombstone. Kasdan had successfully directed a lot of ensemble pictures before and this was his first critical and commercial failure as a Writer/director (or w/d/p)
3. Tombstone was 2 hours, 10 minutes. Wyatt Earp was exactly 1 hour longer - probably owing to the fact they were stuffing 6+ hours of intended content into a feature film
Sometimes outstanding ingredients can fail to produce a good dish. That is what appears to have happened with Wyatt Earp.
This post was edited on 8/21/25 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 8/21/25 at 5:26 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Why Tombstone is better than Wyatt Earp...
Val Kilmer's performance
Posted on 8/21/25 at 5:50 pm to bad93ex
It’s sucks hard for quaid that tombstone exists. Because he is really good as Holliday.
It just came at the exact same time as Kilmers performance which was Oscar worthy.
Quiad had some good lines too
“You can all kiss my rebel dick”
“ Dave rutabaugh is an ignorant scoundrel. I disapprove of his very existence.”
It just came at the exact same time as Kilmers performance which was Oscar worthy.
Quiad had some good lines too
“You can all kiss my rebel dick”
“ Dave rutabaugh is an ignorant scoundrel. I disapprove of his very existence.”
This post was edited on 8/21/25 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 8/21/25 at 6:24 pm to Huey Lewis
quote:
Wyatt Earp is a better film but Tombstone is the better movie.
I’m glad we have both. I appreciate WE covering most of his life showing there was much more than the moments that made him famous
Posted on 8/21/25 at 6:34 pm to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
“ Dave rutabaugh is an ignorant scoundrel. I disapprove of his very existence.”
Posted on 8/21/25 at 6:56 pm to iwyLSUiwy
My Darling Clementine (1946) is more like Tombstone with the way the Clanton's are featured from the start, and tension builds.
It stars Henry Fonda as Wyatt Earp, Victor Mature as "Doc" Holliday, Linda Darnell as Chihuahua, Walter Brennan as Newman Haynes Clanton, Tim Holt as Virgil Earp, Ward Bond as Morgan Earp, Don Garner as James Earp, Grant Withers as Ike Clanton, John Ireland as Billy Clanton.
ETA:
Most surprising fact about this version is how good a villain Walter Brennan is.
It's free here on YouTube.
It stars Henry Fonda as Wyatt Earp, Victor Mature as "Doc" Holliday, Linda Darnell as Chihuahua, Walter Brennan as Newman Haynes Clanton, Tim Holt as Virgil Earp, Ward Bond as Morgan Earp, Don Garner as James Earp, Grant Withers as Ike Clanton, John Ireland as Billy Clanton.
ETA:
Most surprising fact about this version is how good a villain Walter Brennan is.
It's free here on YouTube.
This post was edited on 8/21/25 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 8/21/25 at 7:31 pm to iwyLSUiwy
I think I like every point you make.
I think Wyatt Earp is the better movie overall but Tombstone is more entertaining,
likable and as you say good popcorn movie.
I think Wyatt Earp is the better movie overall but Tombstone is more entertaining,
likable and as you say good popcorn movie.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 8:53 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Tombstone felt like a spaghetti western. Probably because it was directed by an Italian guy. It’s like the textbook western.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 8:56 pm to bad93ex
quote:
Why Tombstone is better than Wyatt Earp... Val Kilmer's performance
Posted on 8/21/25 at 9:01 pm to Ace Midnight
They would’ve been better off doing a mini series. Tombstone could have been the comic book version of the story while Wyatt Earp could’ve been the novel. Missed opportunity.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 9:58 pm to abellsujr
quote:
Tombstone felt like a spaghetti western. Probably because it was directed by an Italian guy. It’s like the textbook western.
He was actually fired during filming due to all the chaos and lack of organization he had. Kurt Russel too over directing and did most of the movie as well as post production. He didn’t want the credit for it though, so he had the producers keep the original directors name on it. What I’ve read is that the cast have a great appreciation of what he did, because he saved the movie and was incredibly humble about it.
Much respect!
ETA: here’s Ana article about it. There are others you can read as well. Hollywood reporter
quote:
In a lengthy blog entry Thursday, Kilmer made it plain and clear: “Kurt is solely responsible for Tombstone’s success, no question.”
quote:
Russell admitted as much in a 2006 interview with True West magazine, when the actor said he made it clear to studio brass he did not want his name listed as director
This post was edited on 8/21/25 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 8/21/25 at 10:08 pm to Midget Death Squad
That’s wild man. Kurt Russell could have been a great director.
Posted on 8/21/25 at 10:20 pm to iwyLSUiwy
Really to me the major difference between WE and Tombstone is the former seemed to lack soul. Not sure if it was bad writing or what, but I feel like the acting in Tombstone was much more compelling. The thing that both movies got right was they both realized Wyatt Earp may be the focus of the movie, but he's nothing more than the frame of the picture. The dynamic characters, complex plots and set of that period in history were the colorful picture that filled it.
This post was edited on 8/21/25 at 10:24 pm
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