Started By
Message
locked post

History of US and NATO Lies and Provocations

Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:11 pm
Posted by RiverCityTider
Jacksonville, Florida
Member since Oct 2008
6664 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:11 pm
This post provides a comprehensive overview of NATO’s eastward expansion and its impact on Russian-Western relations, focusing on key events from 1990 to 2014. It addresses the user’s request for a detailed, clear account with supporting links, building on a previous condensed version to ensure no meaning is lost.

1. Assurances Against NATO Expansion (1990–1991)

During the negotiations for German reunification in 1990–1991, Western leaders sought Soviet approval to withdraw approximately 400,000 troops from East Germany and integrate a unified Germany into NATO. To address Soviet security concerns, multiple Western leaders provided assurances that NATO would not expand eastward toward Russia’s borders. These assurances were not codified in formal treaties but are documented in declassified records.

Key Assurances:

On January 31, 1990, German Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, in a speech in Tutzing, called for NATO to state that it would not expand eastward, closer to the Soviet Union’s borders (Wikipedia: NATO Expansion Controversy).

On February 10, 1990, Genscher told Soviet Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze, “We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east,” adding that this applied “in general” beyond East Germany (DER SPIEGEL: NATO’s Eastward Expansion).

On February 9, 1990, U.S. Secretary of State James Baker told Gorbachev that if Germany remained in NATO, there would be “no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east” (National Security Archive: NATO Expansion).

Other leaders, including British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, French President François Mitterrand, and NATO Secretary General Manfred Wörner, offered similar assurances throughout 1990–1991, as documented in memoranda from U.S., Soviet, German, British, and French archives (National Security Archive: NATO Expansion).

Archival research by Joshua Shifrinson supports the Russian narrative, showing that U.S. officials offered informal non-expansion pledges while privately considering expansion (International Security: NATO Non-extension Assurances). A 1991 British archive document

2. NATO Expansion (1999 and 2004)

Despite the assurances, NATO expanded eastward in two significant waves, bringing the alliance closer to Russia’s borders and fueling perceptions of betrayal.

1999 Expansion:

On March 12, 1999, Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic joined NATO, marking the first post-Cold War expansion into former Warsaw Pact countries (NATO: Enlargement).

This move was controversial, with over 40 U.S. foreign policy experts, including Bill Bradley and Sam Nunn, warning in an open letter to President Bill Clinton that it was costly and unnecessary given the lack of a Russian threat at the time (Wikipedia: Enlargement of NATO).

2004 Expansion:

On March 29, 2004, seven additional countries—Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia—joined NATO, the largest single expansion in the alliance’s history (NATO: Member Countries).

The inclusion of the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania), former Soviet republics, brought NATO directly to Russia’s borders, intensifying Moscow’s concerns.

These expansions moved NATO approximately 1,000 miles closer to Russia, contradicting the spirit of the 1990–1991 assurances. Russia viewed this as encirclement, particularly with Poland’s historical hostility toward Russia, as noted by retired U.S. Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor (Carnegie Endowment: NATO (Arms Control Association: ABM Treaty capability (Wikipedia: ABM Treaty).

4. NATO Bucharest Summit (2008)

At the Bucharest Summit on April 2–4, 2008, NATO issued a declaration stating, “We agreed today that these countries [Ukraine and Georgia] will become members of NATO” (NATO: Bucharest Summit Declaration)

The U.S., under President George W. Bush, pushed for Ukraine and Georgia to join the Membership Action Plan (MAP), but opposition from Germany and France delayed this step, with a review planned for December 2008 (Reuters: Bucharest Declaration).

Russia viewed this pledge as a direct threat, particularly given Ukraine’s 1,200-mile border with Russia and Georgia’s proximity. A 2008 cable from U.S. Ambassador William Burns (now CIA Director) warned that Russia saw NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia as a “red line” with “unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences” for Russian security (The Guardian: Russia’s NATO Beliefs).

5. Russo-Georgian War (2008)

In August 2008, a five-day war erupted between Russia and Georgia over the breakaway region of South Ossetia, following Georgia’s military offensive to reclaim the territory (Wikipedia: Russo-Georgian War).

Russia intervened, citing the need to protect Russian citizens and peacekeepers, and defeated Georgian forces. Post-war, Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states, a move condemned by the West (CNN: Georgia-Russia Conflict).

The conflict was partly a response to NATO’s Bucharest declaration, signaling Russia’s opposition to NATO’s presence on its borders, as noted by Colonel Macgregor (Atlantic Council: Russo-Georgian War).

6. Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine (2014)

In November 2013, protests began in Kyiv’s Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) after President Viktor Yanukovych rejected an EU association agreement, favoring closer ties with Russia (Wikipedia: Revolution of Dignity).

The protests, known as Euromaidan or the Revolution of Dignity, escalated into a broader movement against corruption and authoritarianism. Violent clashes in February 2014 led to Yanukovych’s ousting by parliament, with 328 of 450 members voting to remove him (BBC News: Ukraine’s Revolution).

The interim government was pro-Western, and some far-right groups, like Right Sector and Svoboda, played a role, though their influence is debated. Russia labeled the events a U.S.-backed coup, while the West viewed them as a democratic uprising (Foreign Policy: Ukraine Coup Myth).

Russia responded by annexing Crimea in March 2014 and supporting separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk, sparking the ongoing Donbas conflict (Britannica: Ukraine Crisis).

7. Impact on Russian-Western Relations

Russian Perspective:

Russia views NATO’s expansion as a violation of 1990–1991 assurances, fostering a sense of betrayal and encirclement. The inclusion of former Soviet states and the 2008 Bucharest pledge intensified these fears.

The 2014 Ukraine events, seen as a Western-orchestrated regime change, further eroded trust, prompting Russia’s actions in Donbas and Crimea.
Posted by LegendInMyMind
Member since Apr 2019
72349 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:19 pm to
At least share which AI bot spit this out for you.
Posted by BigPerm30
Member since Aug 2011
31246 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:24 pm to
NATO is nothing more than a marketing front for political corruption on a world level and Military Industrial Complex both at the expense of the American taxpayers and the death of innocent cannon fodder throughout underprivileged countries.
Posted by Bunk Moreland
Member since Dec 2010
66986 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:25 pm to
Defensive alliance
This post was edited on 6/7/25 at 9:26 pm
Posted by sta4ever
Member since Aug 2014
17457 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:30 pm to
frick Russia
Posted by NotoriousFSU
Atlanta, GA
Member since Oct 2008
12107 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 9:50 pm to
frick Russia and Ukraine. And NATO. And China. And Brooks Conrad.
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
46425 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 10:21 pm to
How many treaties/agreements did the Soviets honor?
Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
16737 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 10:41 pm to
Yeah, it's not like Europe, espcially countries like Ukraine and Poland and the Baltic States have anything to FEAR from Russia, like an invasion or something!

It's like telling the little old lady who lives in a first floor apartment in the ghetto not to put up bars on her first floor windowns or BUY A GUN because it might make the gang bangers upset that breaking into her place to steal her stuff will get even harorder now!
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39337 posts
Posted on 6/7/25 at 11:07 pm to
quote:

Assurances Against NATO Expansion


You need something more than 'assurances' in geopolitics. As far as those leaders may have been concerned, they made assurances to the Soviet Union, not Russia, and given that the Soviet Union did not exist at the time expansion occurred, technically there was no violation of those assurances. The Yeltsin-Clinton cables from the mid-90's show that NATO expansion was still up for discussion between Russia and the US but no progress was made for one major reason.

That reason being that it was the decision of each individual country to decide whether to conform to NATO demands. While Russian security concerns were important, so are the security concerns of their former satellite states, who took great pains to join the 'West' in military and economic terms, such was their weariness of being in the Russian sphere.

Those assurances, unfortunately, were just empty words. It is pretty standard in politics. Are you going to list every time Russia violated actual signed treaties in an effort to represent the situation accurately? Russia isn't the victim in this situation. They, theoretically, had the same choice to join the West that the former Soviet republics did. They decidedly went in another direction. Why the West gets the blame and almost none goes to the many examples of Russian misbehavior is a weird thing.

Every argument for ignoring, for example, Poland's sovereignty and ability to choose with whom they partner begs the question as to what should make us take Russian security concerns higher than Poland's sovereignty claims. The answer is nuclear weapons and the fact that Russia has them in large numbers and the Poles, nor anyone else in Eastern Europe, has any. The only logical response for Poland in this instance is to pursue nuclear weapons and conventional weapons capability to the degree that Russia treats them as equals. That would also be a situation which would threaten Russian security, so should we prevent Poland, in this hypothetical case, from pursuing nuclear weapons? Why does Russia get to have them and then use the fact they have them to bully countries into agreeing to Russian demands?

The reality of geopolitics shows that states value their own survival as coherent political entities above everything else. There is no way that Poland, in that hypothetical, would not pursue their own maximalist strategy to ensure their own survival. In the absence of a defensive alliance, which was driven in large part by Eastern European countries, those countries would pursue whatever means that would ensure their survival. Joining NATO is the cheaper and safer option given all the potential options. And given the explicit aims of the US after the CW to remain the sole hegemon, the Poles pursuing a maximalist strategy, i.e. pursuing nuclear weapons, would be against the prevailing US interest.

The Russians are just upset that they lost the post-CW jockeying, and that they have lost the ability to move freely without running into enemies. Even if they win in Ukraine, which is a strong possibility, that victory does nothing to undermine NATO. They are the ones responsible for creating their current geopolitical situation, which is vexing. Their border with NATO is much longer now than it ever would have been if they had done nothing, they have no open access to the sea on their Western frontier, and have to seek aid from pariah nations like NK and Iran.
This post was edited on 6/8/25 at 9:51 pm
Posted by ReeseBobby
Comanche TX
Member since Oct 2021
312 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 12:40 am to
Every nation has the right to join whatever alliances they choose. It’s no coincidence that every former Warsaw pact nation and half the former Soviet republics ran to NATO.
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 12:46 am to
Nice Work. This will Trigger the NAFO Trolls...Bigly. They will start attacking you and ignore the information
Posted by John Barron
The Mar-a-Lago Club
Member since Sep 2024
17101 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 12:49 am to
quote:

kill yourself


I am telling you, these NAFO Trolls are not mentally stable. They hate when facts and correct information is brought to the table. The personal threats and attacks start coming shortly after
This post was edited on 6/8/25 at 12:52 am
Posted by kilo
No block, no rock
Member since Oct 2011
29770 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 1:24 am to
quote:

NATO is nothing more than a marketing front for political corruption


It served a valid purpose in past history.

Nothing but a money laundering grift now.



This post was edited on 6/8/25 at 1:27 am
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
7769 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 6:33 am to
quote:

Every nation has the right to join whatever alliances they choose. It’s no coincidence that every former Warsaw pact nation and half the former Soviet republics ran to NATO.


Funny how that happens when your country's leadership has been installed by the CIA. (For reference, see Ukraine)
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
36186 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 6:39 am to
Aside from your NATO bashing, what does the fact that all of the former Warsaw Pact countries could not wait to join under the NATO umbrella tell you about how those countries feel about the Russians overall?

I've known Poles, Romanians, Hungarians as well as Czechs who would not piss on a Russian if they were on fire.

Russian leaders have not been some sort of misunderstood peaceable types throughout their history....either
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
6470 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 6:52 am to
quote:

Aside from your NATO bashing, what does the fact that all of the former Warsaw Pact countries could not wait to join under the NATO umbrella tell you about how those countries feel about the Russians overall?


I do find it interesting how obsessed certain people are with this "Dolchstoßlegende" with Russia.

They both want to pretend that all promises made to the Soviets are valid, but none of the atrocities of the Soviets can be associated with them.

It became clear in the early 2000s that Russia was not going to be a peaceful nation for much longer.

They care far more about Russia being successful than the USA being successful.

Somehow to them make America great again means shrinking America militarily, diplomatically and economically, allowing long term foes to grow their spheres of interests at the expense of America.

Culminating in an America cutoff from the rest of the world with a declining GDP.

Cause anything else would be... nafoo cope liberal or some such weird cult language.
This post was edited on 6/8/25 at 6:55 am
Posted by HagaDaga
Member since Oct 2020
6264 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 8:09 am to
quote:

History of US and NATO Lies and Provocations

Liking or hating either side makes no difference.

Russia has been clear about Ukraine in NATO for decades. Mini-Z knew this. And instigated it. Can't blame Russia for responding to being told to frick off when they've been clear.
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
80559 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 8:16 am to
quote:

You need something more than 'assurances' in geopolitics.


Believing that you can somehow impose your will on future generations of people who don't exist yet is silliness.

This post was edited on 6/8/25 at 9:05 am
Posted by omegaman66
greenwell springs
Member since Oct 2007
26426 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 8:31 am to
quote:

Yeah, it's not like Europe, espcially countries like Ukraine and Poland and the Baltic States have anything to FEAR from Russia, like an invasion or something!


They wouldn't if the west wasn't plotting Russia's downfall.
Posted by Rodo
Houston
Member since Aug 2011
1762 posts
Posted on 6/8/25 at 8:41 am to
Western foreign policy is set by the USA Military-Intelligence-Industrial complex. The MII needs a Russian boogeyman to get their funding.

Rodo
first pageprev pagePage 1 of 3Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram