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Started By
Message
So who holds more trade value right now, Trey at his salary or Herb at his?
Posted on 12/27/24 at 12:26 am
Posted on 12/27/24 at 12:26 am
This was a continuation from an argument over the off-season. Just wondering what everyone thinks now.
6
Posted on 12/27/24 at 12:39 am to Townedrunkard
Herb had maxed out his potential here. I know fans like him but he needs to go. Trade him. His stock won't get any higher here with this coaching that we have
Posted on 12/27/24 at 12:49 am to Islandboy777
quote:
Herb had maxed out his potential here. I know fans like him but he needs to go. Trade him. His stock won't get any higher here with this coaching that we have
Herb is the type of player you keep especially if the goal is to rebuild with younger star players. You cannot put a price on his value inside the organization & inside of the locker room. He's a leads by example style of guy. He would also push & hold younger players accountable which is something the organization needs more of not less.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 5:05 am to Townedrunkard
I think it's pretty clearly Murphy. He has a higher upside and is a better offensive player. Offense is going to trump defense, as far as value goes..
Posted on 12/27/24 at 6:56 am to Townedrunkard
If herb can't consistently shoot 3s, his value is going to be similar (albeit a bit more) than what matisse thybulle was to Philadelphia.
He's a better defender, but in this age you need to shoot near average.
He's a better defender, but in this age you need to shoot near average.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 7:12 am to htran90
Herb Is a glue guy that can fit in on any roster and is paid accordingly .
Trey is a good spot up shooter but is paid as a better player . My issue with Trey is he seems to be front runner . No leadership, no dirty work , no toughness . Shooting is an important skill and with the right guys around him he can shine but he’ll always be dependent on that .
Trey skill set is more valued but I think Herb would garner more value bc he will be more demanded bc of contract .
Trey is a good spot up shooter but is paid as a better player . My issue with Trey is he seems to be front runner . No leadership, no dirty work , no toughness . Shooting is an important skill and with the right guys around him he can shine but he’ll always be dependent on that .
Trey skill set is more valued but I think Herb would garner more value bc he will be more demanded bc of contract .
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:00 am to Townedrunkard
Trey
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:02 am to Islandboy777
quote:if you can get 2 very good first round picks for him, I’d consider it. 3 picks and I feel like you can’t turn that down. This is probablly the highest his value be.
Herb had maxed out his potential here. I know fans like him but he needs to go. Trade him. His stock won't get any higher here with this coaching that we have
This post was edited on 12/27/24 at 9:03 am
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:05 am to htran90
quote:
If herb can't consistently shoot 3s, his value is going to be similar (albeit a bit more) than what matisse thybulle was to Philadelphia.
I do'nt think anyone is worried about his 3 point shooting b/c of this year.
We literally don't have a single player on the roster that played last night that is shooting 36% or better from 3 this year.
Murray at 28%
Herb at 29%
CJ is at 32%
Hawk at 33%
Trey at 35%
Those 5 guys who we all know can shoot the 3 near or over 40% didn't all forget how to shoot this year.
Just more evidence that what Willie is doing to this team has to stop.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:18 am to TeddyPadillac
Herb is pretty inconsistent with his 3pt shooting. Even he’s best year last year he shot 41% but a lot of that was just in one corner. He shot below average everywhere else. Im 50/50 on the idea of trading him. I like his work ethic and quiet leadership for a potential rebuild. But also think his value won’t get any higher than what it is now and probably won’t be on the team after his contract is up.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:26 am to Macintosh
quote:
Herb is pretty inconsistent with his 3pt shooting.
I would agreee, but i'd blame this on a coach who keeps saying shoot 40 3's a game but doens't have an offensive philosphy that allows that to happen organically.
I said it in the preseason that I did not like a lot of 3's we were taking, Herb especially. You don't just jack up 3's to shoot more. If it's not a good shot, then don't take it, and we were forcing way too many.
I'd rather take 34 3's a game and 90% of them be good shots, as opposed to taking 40 3's a game and 70 % of them are good shots.
quote:
Even he’s best year last year he shot 41% but a lot of that was just in one corner. He shot below average everywhere else.
He shot 42% from the left wing, and that was his best spot from 3 the year before at 36%, and he was 40% from there his rookie year.
So what does that tell you. Herb should either be on the left wing, or the right corner and taking C&S threes. I'm seeing threes off the dribble from him, and that's just stupid. I get you want to add things to your game, but that's just not him, and it doesn't need to be something he does to make him better.
I'm not trading Herb. A basketball teams roster is not the stock market. I"m not invested in this team to just acquire draft picks every year when a guy has peak value to trade away. What's the point of that?
This post was edited on 12/27/24 at 9:30 am
Posted on 12/27/24 at 9:57 am to Townedrunkard
JMO: Herb would have more trade value for a serious contending team that thinks they only need a "Herb-type" player to put them over the top. Herb's value to all those other "average" teams is much less...
The best team in the West and maybe all of the NBA just extended Caruso for 4 years/$81M...AT AGE 30 !! That should tell you something about Herb's value...since he is currently MUCH more valuable that Caruso...imo.
Trey is a hard case to figure. I doubt he is ever gonna develope into anything other than that one-trick pony (shooter, obviously)... and he's starting to be VERY expensive. Maybe he'll go to work this "practice season" and grow into a decent all-around player...I'm not optimistic...just hopeful.
Back on Herb...he will still have solid value next season at this time...so there's no hurry in trading him immediately unless a crazy offer comes along. From what I've seen lately...I think the Pels are about to try and give Herb every opportunity to "come out of the corner"...and develope his ball-handling and assist capabilities...whatever that might prove to be.
Hint...I've made very easy money on Herb...in the assist prop area...since his return 9 games ago. Assist prop # is still sitting at 2 1/2 per game...and I'll ride the "over" until Vegas makes a serious adjustment upward...assuming the Pels continue to try and develope Herb's overall game. I've played this as a 6X wager...for the past several games...and I can't remember my last 6X wager.
The best team in the West and maybe all of the NBA just extended Caruso for 4 years/$81M...AT AGE 30 !! That should tell you something about Herb's value...since he is currently MUCH more valuable that Caruso...imo.
Trey is a hard case to figure. I doubt he is ever gonna develope into anything other than that one-trick pony (shooter, obviously)... and he's starting to be VERY expensive. Maybe he'll go to work this "practice season" and grow into a decent all-around player...I'm not optimistic...just hopeful.
Back on Herb...he will still have solid value next season at this time...so there's no hurry in trading him immediately unless a crazy offer comes along. From what I've seen lately...I think the Pels are about to try and give Herb every opportunity to "come out of the corner"...and develope his ball-handling and assist capabilities...whatever that might prove to be.
Hint...I've made very easy money on Herb...in the assist prop area...since his return 9 games ago. Assist prop # is still sitting at 2 1/2 per game...and I'll ride the "over" until Vegas makes a serious adjustment upward...assuming the Pels continue to try and develope Herb's overall game. I've played this as a 6X wager...for the past several games...and I can't remember my last 6X wager.
This post was edited on 12/27/24 at 10:02 am
Posted on 12/27/24 at 10:15 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
I'm not trading Herb
I cannot tell you the levels of melt i would have if we traded Herb for a non superstar deal
Posted on 12/27/24 at 12:36 pm to Townedrunkard
Herb. Easily.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 1:18 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
Hint...I've made very easy money on Herb...in the assist prop area...since his return 9 games ago. Assist prop # is still sitting at 2 1/2 per game...and I'll ride the "over" until Vegas makes a serious adjustment upward...assuming the Pels continue to try and develope Herb's overall game. I've played this as a 6X wager...for the past several games...and I can't remember my last 6X wager.
How much are you betting for what return?
Posted on 12/27/24 at 1:29 pm to brmark70816
quote:
I think it's pretty clearly Murphy. He has a higher upside and is a better offensive player. Offense is going to trump defense, as far as value goes..
Herb is much more valuable to teams right now considering he is an overall better player on a much more team friendly contract.
Posted on 12/27/24 at 2:17 pm to Broski
quote:
Herb is much more valuable to teams right now considering he is an overall better player on a much more team friendly contract.
People are way too invested and emotional when it comes to debates about this. Jones is a good defensive specialist. That's not that special. He is nowhere near as good as someone like Derrick White, who is the 5th best player on the Celtics (they would laugh if we tried to swap them). We are getting toasted game after game, with him playing. Who's he stopping right now?
Murphy is a potential 20ppg guy. He is a premier shooter. A legit 3rd option on a contending team. Supposedly the Hawks offered us the 1st pick for him. Plus he's two years younger than Jones.
Finally, all of these "contending" teams have little or nothing to offer for Jones. The only one with real ammo are the Thunder, that have 2-3 specialist just like him. So who is sending us a haul for him? If we traded Murphy, it'd be to a 2nd or 3rd tier team that would have much more to offer. Do you have examples of who would offer us more for Jones?
Posted on 12/27/24 at 2:46 pm to Chalkywhite84
quote:
quote:
Hint...I've made very easy money on Herb...in the assist prop area...since his return 9 games ago. Assist prop # is still sitting at 2 1/2 per game...and I'll ride the "over" until Vegas makes a serious adjustment upward...assuming the Pels continue to try and develope Herb's overall game. I've played this as a 6X wager...for the past several games...and I can't remember my last 6X wager.
How much are you betting for what return?
Amount not important but rest assured it's enough to get my attention. One man's 1X might be another man's 5X.
Bet "return" per wager is very close to standard 1 to 1 (minus standard 10% juice of course). Herb's "assist" prop bet has been on plus or minus 2 1/2 for past 9 games since his return. He has assists #s of 5,4,1,4,3,2,4,6,7 in those 9 games. Good for 7-2 winning rate on even bets. The only 2...shoulda been a 3 but MIssi dropped a bounce pass from Herb for a dunk late in the game...then Missi picked it up & layed it in. Result? NO assist credited to Herb. LOL...you notice stuff like that when you're on the "over 2 1/2" assists. So, shoulda been 8-1 instead of 7-2...
I expect Herb's assist prop to move up to 3 1/2 very soon...(they NEVER like to move that type # to an even number...so it'll be 3 1/2 instead of just 3...Vegas HATES pushes)
Oops...here's an added "PS"...looks like Herb's assists # just moved to 3 1/2... and payout went to +118 on over and -172 on under. Vegas doesn't like to give out ez money, especially not for long.
This post was edited on 12/27/24 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 12/27/24 at 3:49 pm to brmark70816
quote:
People are way too invested and emotional when it comes to debates about this. Jones is a good defensive specialist. That's not that special. He is nowhere near as good as someone like Derrick White, who is the 5th best player on the Celtics (they would laugh if we tried to swap them).
I agree..in fact, the Celtics wouldn't trade Derrick White for ANYBODY on the Pels' team. Even at 30 years old.
Currently, I'd have White...AT WORSE...as the 3rd best player on the Celtics. Funny thing is...3 years ago...when White was 27 years old...he was just another pretty face. Things can change in a hurry nowadays...given the state of the NBA game...as shown by the fact the Celtics recently signed White to a 4-yr/$126M contract extension starting next season when White will be 31 years old.
This post was edited on 12/27/24 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 12/27/24 at 3:51 pm to htran90
quote:
If herb can't consistently shoot 3s,
Murphy hasn’t been consistent from three for two years now, and it’s mainly why he’s making the money he is. He surely hasn’t added to his “bag” like people thought, either
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