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re: Whoever started coaching catchers on 1 knee
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:43 am to dukeg7213
Posted on 5/8/24 at 9:43 am to dukeg7213
It's all because of analytics. The Red Sox started implementing this technique a few years ago because of some study they conducted that produced data saying it allows catchers to rest the body and frame balls better. Since then it's been all over MLB too.
Tony Pena and Benito Santiago used to routinely catch from one knee but that was because they could throw runners out from their knees.
BUT, if you have a pitcher with a hard slider or splitter you can't be on one knee.
Tony Pena and Benito Santiago used to routinely catch from one knee but that was because they could throw runners out from their knees.
BUT, if you have a pitcher with a hard slider or splitter you can't be on one knee.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:23 am to Lizrdman9
quote:typically sliders and changes, are hitting glove first as they tend to not jump. I would say that Neal is playing them like a 12-6 breaking ball and his set up had little to do w it.
the glove that he has issues getting to because he is anchored, it is the 0-2 61-foot slider that he knows is getting buried by Guidry that ultimately, he whiffs on and allows an extra base runner
Now why he hasn’t been taught to expect that pitch to stay down and plays them in a more traditional chest out hip back block position is the real issue.
Neal is just not a great defensive catcher, Milazzo is a right knee down left kickstand catcher and does well inside the box. When you see him look disjointed the ball is very wide to his throwing side. It is just hard to get to that ball no matter the set up
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:13 am to dukeg7213
Do a film review and you'll see that the number of times a guy has to block a ball from a knee is far less than the number of times a catcher has to steal a strike at the bottom of the zone., and for the record, athletic guys can still move and block balls effectively.
Need receipts..? Well in 2017 and 18 , pitches taken by hitters in "borderline area", the strike rate was 35.2% and 35.5%. After adopting the knee down approach, in 2019, that number jumped to 43.6%, and in 2020, it was 45.2%.
In in 2022, the number of passed balls and wild pitches fell off a cliff. From 6.9 per 1000 pitches to 5.7 per 1000. Comparing a 10% gain in called strikes to a 0.7% passed ball rate, a reasonable person can see the gain here and deal with the occasional mishap. Conveniently, this is about the time nearly all MLB programs implemented the one knee set up. Also around this time, they moved to the electronic pitch sign delivery, so you get fewer cross ups.
One can't empirically say with certainty that the one knee set up is solely responsible, but YOU have to deal with the fact that the game is changing, and you have to accept it.
Anyone with youngsters playing the game, if you're not training them to the latest, age appropriate techniques, you're doing them a disservice.
Need receipts..? Well in 2017 and 18 , pitches taken by hitters in "borderline area", the strike rate was 35.2% and 35.5%. After adopting the knee down approach, in 2019, that number jumped to 43.6%, and in 2020, it was 45.2%.
In in 2022, the number of passed balls and wild pitches fell off a cliff. From 6.9 per 1000 pitches to 5.7 per 1000. Comparing a 10% gain in called strikes to a 0.7% passed ball rate, a reasonable person can see the gain here and deal with the occasional mishap. Conveniently, this is about the time nearly all MLB programs implemented the one knee set up. Also around this time, they moved to the electronic pitch sign delivery, so you get fewer cross ups.
One can't empirically say with certainty that the one knee set up is solely responsible, but YOU have to deal with the fact that the game is changing, and you have to accept it.
Anyone with youngsters playing the game, if you're not training them to the latest, age appropriate techniques, you're doing them a disservice.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:21 am to Choupique19
quote:
All the catchers in the history of baseball from 1870 - 2019 were neanderthals who knew nothing.
Saying that's how it was always done is the laziest argument of all time.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 11:31 am to dukeg7213
I caught in the 90’s and we did it then. You catch spring summer and fall ball and not take a break sometimes. Everyone knows who can steal and who can’t. If there was a threat of running then you’d just squat. Plus it’s an art to it depending on right or left handed pitching determines what leg you take a knee. Then you can slide laterally for the block. But I’m sure you know more than 3 decades of baseball coaches pro to high school.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 1:13 pm to Choupique19
Pittsburgh Pirates catcher Manny Sanguilen the Panamanian was the best ever on one knee .
Posted on 5/8/24 at 1:21 pm to jgriffith
quote:
Yep, and our man Skip hates it just as much as we do.
Not a good example though. Yes, Skip is a former catcher...but he himself also later had to get double-hip replacement surgery, presumably from having to squat so much over the years as a catcher. This so-called "new" catching technique should be less stressful on the hip joints.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 5:00 pm to dukeg7213
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:13 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
this is false Moving toward or away from the kickstand is a better blocking reaction and efficiency The only drop off is what would generally be a wild pitch well outside the catchers box. Look I am over 50. My kid catches and I argued w him for years. Then I researched it. I also watch the best young catchers around and blocks and controlled blocks are better than ever
I call bullshite.
Proof: my eyes, the recent run of runners taking bases and scoring from balls bouncing to the backstop at all levels of the game.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:15 pm to tigerfoot
quote:
I had the pleasure of watching one of the best HS catchers I’ve seen this last weekend he had knee down and a modified kick stand set up. He was a stud.
Name?
Posted on 5/8/24 at 8:49 pm to TheDude321
quote:
Not a good example though. Yes, Skip is a former catcher...but he himself also later had to get double-hip replacement surgery, presumably from having to squat so much over the years as a catcher. This so-called "new" catching technique should be less stressful on the hip joints.
Do you know what is less stressful on joints?
Sitting on a 5 gallon bucket receiving a ball. Maybe we should introduce 5 gallon buckets to all catchers in MLB college and high school?
This post was edited on 5/8/24 at 8:50 pm
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:06 pm to dukeg7213
As a backup catcher with bad knees I would have loved it. Probably would have been faster to the left as well. Catching sucks in the late innings.
Posted on 5/8/24 at 10:21 pm to junkfunky
It was the twins that started it, iirc. Yes, they keep stats on framing. Every mlb team followed. I doubt those that caught in HS know better. Let’s be real here.
It’s called breaking when you drop the mitt then stick it ans you move it slightly towards the zone. It also helps with framing.
It’s called breaking when you drop the mitt then stick it ans you move it slightly towards the zone. It also helps with framing.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 10:50 am to dukeg7213
I was arguing/discussing this with my 8 y.o. grandsons coach the other day. He called his "buddy' who is catcher for a "major college" program. He said they all teach that as the correct way!
Grandson was constantly missing balls outside!
Grandson was constantly missing balls outside!
Posted on 5/9/24 at 11:44 am to 2geaux
As long as its not during the National Anthem, its fine with me.
Posted on 5/9/24 at 1:26 pm to dukeg7213
It was manny sanguillune. Pittsburgh pirates 1970s
Posted on 5/9/24 at 1:28 pm to 2geaux
quote:It isnt because he is on a knee.
Grandson was constantly missing balls outside!
quote:please tell me I fell for it.
I was arguing/discussing this with my 8 y.o. grandsons coach
Posted on 5/9/24 at 1:29 pm to barry
quote:quote:
All the catchers in the history of baseball from 1870 - 2019 were neanderthals who knew nothing.
Saying that's how it was always done is the laziest argument of all time.
Indeed, same sort of stuff was being said when catchers (Johny Bench specifically) first started using hinged gloves and catching with one hand unlike all the Neanderthals (with a few exceptions) from 1870-1970.
Posted on 5/10/24 at 8:43 am to Meauxjeaux
quote:
Proof: my eyes, the recent run of runners taking bases and scoring from balls bouncing to the backstop at all levels of the game.
Yea because that never happened before this form was used more widely. Your eyes are better than guys, players and coaches that make millions of dollars doing it and coaching it??? STOP.
THE PROOF is if you’re squatting and a ball is low you have to DROP to block. If you’re on a knee you’re already dropped. Your point is really bad. It’s like saying kids can’t bunt now so they suck at hitting………when the opposite is true.
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