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Remember When We Were Told Abrams Battle Tanks Would Change The Trajectory Of The War?
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:52 am
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:52 am
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:55 am to Toomer Deplorable
The Abrams is a solid weapon. More than likely it’s the personnel operating it.
ETA drones are a relatively new battle weapon and no Tech is really immune
ETA drones are a relatively new battle weapon and no Tech is really immune
This post was edited on 4/27/24 at 8:57 am
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:56 am to Toomer Deplorable
The article was about Abrams tanks vs. Russian tanks.
The paradigm shift is because of the use of drones to keep the tanks away from the front of the battlefield.
Times change. Warfare changes.
The paradigm shift is because of the use of drones to keep the tanks away from the front of the battlefield.
Times change. Warfare changes.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 8:57 am to Toomer Deplorable
The tool doesn’t do you much good if you are too incompetent to use it properly
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:01 am to teke184
Zelensky probably sold them to China
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:02 am to papasmurf1269
Agree. The tank crews make the Abrams effective. Also when we operate the Abrams we have air superiority. You need good crews and air support. Our fighters clear the skies, the Warthogs knock the enemy force down, the Apaches chip away some more and the Abrams finish them off. We don’t want to fight fair.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:04 am to papasmurf1269
Yes, training is a big component. I spent over 20 years of my life on an Abrams. Even when we weren't deploying, we'd spend 5-6 months per year training on those bastards--2 gunneries per year (1 month each), 2 FTXs (1 month each) with stupid arse MILES gear and Hoffman devices and then a month say doing OPFOR shite on tanks for some infantry unit or something.
But the biggest issue is drones. Our biggest fear was never a ground pounder with a TOW or a T-72, we'd smoke them. It was always red air. A Hind-D could kill you. Period.
Tanks are only effective (like most weapon systems) as a Combined Arms Team. Ukraine does not have the ability and training to operate as a Combined Arms force.
But the biggest issue is drones. Our biggest fear was never a ground pounder with a TOW or a T-72, we'd smoke them. It was always red air. A Hind-D could kill you. Period.
Tanks are only effective (like most weapon systems) as a Combined Arms Team. Ukraine does not have the ability and training to operate as a Combined Arms force.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:05 am to Lynxrufus2012
quote:
The tank crews make the Abrams effective.
I think it was Stormin' Norman, from Gulf War 1, who said he'd have won if our military and the Iraqis had swapped hardware. He was more confident in his men and training than the weapons they fought with...
I wonder if our military leaders would confidently say the same today.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:16 am to El Segundo Guy
quote:
Remember When We Were Told Abrams Battle Tanks Would Change The Trajectory Of The War?
quote:
But the biggest issue is drones.
So after all this time leadership has not been able to figure out how to defend against them, so pulling them out? Sounds like a win for RU/Putin, while China watches.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:20 am to SouthEasternKaiju
I will say, we trained the frick out of our tank crews. As a Tank Commander, I was always running my guys through crew drills. Always.
Even when it was 100 deg at Ft Hood, I'd take my 19 year old loader down to the motor pool with a training sabot round. We'd sit there in the heat for hours while I would show him how to "feed the beast" . Break out a stop watch and get after it. Then I'd train him up on proper air security techniques (that's the leader's 2nd job when not loading big bullets) with his turret mounted M240.
I'd spend hours going over proper stopping techniques when you unmask yourself over a berm, so that you give the gunner the most stable shooting platform possible. I'd go over Sagger drills (avoidance of wire guided missiles) with that fricker until he dreamed about it.
And countless hours in the old UCOFT, now AGTS (Advanced Gunnery Training Simulator) on target acquisition and inducing lead on moving targets, etc.
We trained like our lives depended on it, especially in the 1st Cavalry Division. And when we had to show it on the battlefield, we were prepared.
Even when it was 100 deg at Ft Hood, I'd take my 19 year old loader down to the motor pool with a training sabot round. We'd sit there in the heat for hours while I would show him how to "feed the beast" . Break out a stop watch and get after it. Then I'd train him up on proper air security techniques (that's the leader's 2nd job when not loading big bullets) with his turret mounted M240.
I'd spend hours going over proper stopping techniques when you unmask yourself over a berm, so that you give the gunner the most stable shooting platform possible. I'd go over Sagger drills (avoidance of wire guided missiles) with that fricker until he dreamed about it.
And countless hours in the old UCOFT, now AGTS (Advanced Gunnery Training Simulator) on target acquisition and inducing lead on moving targets, etc.
We trained like our lives depended on it, especially in the 1st Cavalry Division. And when we had to show it on the battlefield, we were prepared.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:23 am to Original Bayou Boy
quote:
The article was about Abrams tanks vs. Russian tanks.
The paradigm shift is because of the use of drones to keep the tanks away from the front of the battlefield.
Times change. Warfare changes.
B.S. There has been no “paradigm shift.”
The entire justification of sending Abrams to the Ukraine was centered in the false notion that these tanks would overpower Russian armor and breakthrough Russian defenses. This ignores the reality that the Ukrainian military always lacked the logistical capability and training to use the tanks in their intended role as an armored spear in highly maneuverable warfare.
It further ignores the reality that this has been a war of position and attrition. All the firepower and maneuverability of a technological marvel like the Abrams tank are rendered useless if used as little more than a static pillbox.
This post was edited on 4/27/24 at 10:30 am
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:25 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
Abrams Battle Tank
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:27 am to Toomer Deplorable
More of our money wasted, whatever the reason for the failure may be.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:29 am to papasmurf1269
quote:
The Abrams is a solid weapon. More than likely it’s the personnel operating it.
ETA drones are a relatively new battle weapon and no Tech is really immune
Yes and we did not send the most sophisticated Abrams tanks to Ukraine. We did not want one of them to end up in the hands of the enemy. Meanwhile, we are learning much about the weaponry of the other side and its effect on the "standard" Abrams model.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:31 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
The entire justification of sending Abrams to the Ukraine was centered in the false notion that these tanks would overpower Russian armor and breakthrough Russian defenses. This ignores the reality that the Ukrainian military always lacked the logistical capability and training to use the tanks in their intended role as an armored spear in highly maneuverable warfare.
Correct.
This is about Ukraine, the lies we’ve been told, the lack of a coherent plan, and the failure of decisions that were made along the way.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:34 am to Toomer Deplorable
Tanks are becoming obsolete with relatively cheap drones and missiles
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:34 am to teke184
The hair & ail salons make it nearly impossible to move around inside the tanks
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:35 am to Toomer Deplorable
It would suck to be infantry knowing that there is a drone that could just drop a grenade on you.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:36 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:
$10 million each
That’s relatively cheap. I’d have bet it was much more.
Posted on 4/27/24 at 9:39 am to Toomer Deplorable
Tanks are a liability when the other side has air superiority. It’s that simple.
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