re: EvangelicalBible.com with a boom today

If you truly want to learn something, you will take the time to read the ariticle from a web site linked below. It's a very succinct ariticle on the Jews returning to the land promised to them by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jaob - who are, by the way, the same people today as they were then. Most of the Diaspora Jews settled in the Arab countries, Eastern, Western, and Central Europe, Russia, and that's where most of them came back from.

Also, read further below and you will understand why God has brought them back into the land. Spoiler alert: It's not based on any modern day changes to the Jews' 3000 years of disobedience to God and His statutes.

The Restoration of Israel

God said he would bring them back in "unbelief" as clearly stated in the article multiple times and below:

The Process of Restoration
All the prophets agree that Israel’s last-days restoration would involve a two-phase process. First, there would be a physical return to the Land and then a spiritual return to God. That is, Israel would return to the Land in unbelief for the purpose of coming to belief.

Both Zechariah 1:3 and Malachi 3:7 express this two-step process in very simple terms: “Return to Me and I will return to you.”

Hosea 6:1-3 also speaks of Israel’s return or tshuva (repentance), leading to God’s return to them.

Jeremiah 24:6-7 states: “I will bring them back to this land… Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the Lord; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.”

In Jeremiah 32 the Lord promises: “Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely. They shall be My people, and I will be their God; then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever… And I will make an everlasting covenant with them… and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart, and with all My soul.” (Jeremiah 32:37-42)

And in the clearest picture of this two-phase process of restoration, Ezekiel 36 declares: “For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you… I will deliver you from all your uncleannesses. I will call for the grain and multiply it, and bring no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of your trees and the increase of your fields, so that you need never again bear the reproach of famine among the nations.” (Ezekiel 36:24-30)

God has not yet "sprinkled clean water" on them. It will be in His time. And it will be for the sake of His Holy Name:

17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.

21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

And for you who still claim that the Jews of the first century were Christ killers: God sent His Son to die for our sins. Jesus was simply following God the Father's wishes. If that weren't the plan, do you think God would have let that happen to His Son? Further, it was prophesied multiple times in the Old Testament that the Messiah would die on a cross for our sins.

Finally, Genesis 12:3:
"And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”

Thanks for the response I’ll check it out!

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Of course the religion that grew up around him is an entirely different matter and has more to do with Paul than with Jesus.

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Yes, Paul is the only reason Christianity exists.

In Paul’s letters, he references a celestial Jesus being killed by archons (demons, what your Bible will translate as rulers, powers, and principalities) in the lowest heaven under the firmament. Paul makes no mention of an earthly Jesus. He makes no mention of anyone ever meeting an earthly Jesus. In fact, Paul states that just like the other apostles, namely Peter and James but others too, he knows of Jesus and the gospel by finding hidden meaning in the Jewish scriptures and by direct revelation (hallucinations, visions) of the Lord himself.

Paul argues amongst his congregations and the other apostles. Wouldn’t it have been something for Paul to say “yeah but Jesus told me this directly himself when he was in Galilee” or something to that extent. Paul never gets “one-up’d” by the other apostles, because like Paul, the others had also never met an earthly Jesus and they didn’t claim for him to have ever been on earth in a fleshly body.

Mark created a narrative very much like a play. The end has the two women running away from the tomb in fear after the man/angel told them Jesus had been resurrected. It literally says they ran away in fear and told no one. I think Mark may have been some type of play or literature meant for entertainment value only, but possibly as a tool to convert gentiles who weren’t familiar with Jewish theology of the celestial Jesus.

In Mark, the disciples are dummies. They don’t understand what Jesus is or what he’s doing. They’re like Jesus’ dumb sidekicks like you have on old looney tunes cartoons for comedic relief.

Mark replays the day of atonement. Two identical unblemished goats. Pilate “sacrifices” Iesous the one called Christos, and he “releases” Iesous bar Abbas (Jesus son of the father) as the goat to be sent off to the wilderness to Azazel the desert demon.

When was Jesus crucified? Day before or day after Passover? It depends on which gospel you read (hey I took that straight from Bart Ehrman).

Pilate, what a nice guy, he lets Jesus’ followers take down his body from the cross after he dies… bullshite. The purpose of a Roman crucifixion was to let the body of the deceased rot for all to see, and for the beasts of the air and of the field to consume the body.

Matthew redacted and edited Mark. Matthew is not a separate account obviously. Two independent people aren’t going to write two stories that are word for word copies of some verses… without actually copying.

Luke copied and redacted Matthew and Mark. John was less lazy than Matthew and Luke and he copied and redacted all the gospels but at least put it in his own words.

The gospels all disagree with each other and with Paul on the very basics of Jesus. None are historically accurate.

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But to say that Jesus never existed, I'd say you're in the minority with that view

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Absolutely, but it’s because the majority are indoctrinated, uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent, or foolish. In my opinion.

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He makes no mention of anyone ever meeting an earthly Jesus

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He's quite clear that he never did

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Matthew redacted and edited Mark. Matthew is not a separate account obviously. Two independent people aren’t going to write two stories that are word for word copies of some verses… without actually copying.

Luke copied and redacted Matthew and Mark

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Yes

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John was less lazy than Matthew and Luke and he copied and redacted all the gospels but at least put it in his own words.

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I think John came from a different source, as Raymond Brown writes about in his Community of the Beloved Disciple. It's not about not being lazy. It's an entirely different story. No parables. No mention of the kingdom of God, which is Jesus' central teaching in the Synoptics. No virgin birth, but rather a preexistent deity come to earth. All 7 I Am statements. The kingdom is in heaven not here on earth. And so on and so on

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The gospels all disagree with each other and with Paul on the very basics of Jesus. None are historically accurate.

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Which is why I cited none of that in my rationale for accepting the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth

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Absolutely, but it’s because the majority are indoctrinated, uneducated, ignorant, unintelligent, or foolish.

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I'm not talking about the majority of believers. I'm talking about the majority of scholars.

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Genesis 12:3 is referencing Jesus. Not Israel.

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The best interpretation I've seen is that it's referencing Abraham specifically, not the nation.

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Which is why I cited none of that in my rationale for accepting the historicity of Jesus of Nazareth

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So to which “contemporary” references to Jesus were you referring? I don’t think there are any.

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which “contemporary” references to Jesus were you referring?

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If you need contemporary references to prove people existed, just chuck your history books into the trash.

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If you need contemporary references to prove people existed, just chuck your history books into the trash.

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Insightful.

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And those same Jews chose to crucify him and continue to deny Him today. I’m a Christian but the evangelical boomer mentality about jew worship is crazy. Jews literally see Jesus as a false prophet yet evangelicals continue to give them unwarranted loyalty even when a lot of people in Israel aren’t even religious. The country of Israel today is not the same thing as the tribes of Israel from 2k years ago.

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way to ruin a good circle jerk right off the batt