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re: Napoleon Bonaparte's win-loss record is a sight to behold...
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:28 pm to RollTide1987
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:28 pm to RollTide1987
OT virgins arguing that Napoleon was an overrated military mind.
Never a dull moment here.
Never a dull moment here.
0
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:30 pm to RollTide1987
Because the French suffered massive casualties, failed to defeat the Imperial Army, and captured a Moscow that was already in flames and used as a trap. It forced Napoleon to winter in Russia. It’s pretty much the definition of a Pyrrhic victory
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:33 pm to RollTide1987
The victory in Spain was done under Napoleons brother, also Napoleon was in the ending stages of the grand armies demise it was a great timing and the Spanish use of gorilla warfare that won Spain
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:38 pm to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
Because the French suffered massive casualties
They did. However, they inflicted twice as many on the Russians.
quote:
failed to defeat the Imperial Army
But he DID defeat them; he just failed to destroy them. Which would have been a tall order considering Napoleon had roughly 100,000 men to combat Kutuzov's 160,000 men.
Nevertheless, Kutuzov retreated from the field because he knew he could not hope to face Napoleon again until he was reinforced. The only reason why future events played out the way they did is because of how badly Napoleon had mauled his army.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:45 pm to RollTide1987
Alexander and Patton could be in the conversation as well. Stonewall was a better general than Lee. Hell the two best generals in the Civil War was Jackson and Sherman.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:48 pm to RollTide1987
You’re the first person I’ve heard try to argue that Borodino wasn’t a Pyrrhic victory, and I’m pretty sure you’re in the minority.
ETA: this isn’t to say Napoleon isn’t a top 5 general all time—I’d agree that he is. But even Pyrrhus was considered a top 3 general by Scipio Africanus and Hannibal Barca
ETA: this isn’t to say Napoleon isn’t a top 5 general all time—I’d agree that he is. But even Pyrrhus was considered a top 3 general by Scipio Africanus and Hannibal Barca
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 1:52 pm
Posted on 12/10/23 at 1:54 pm to RollTide1987
Lee was Vandy vs Bama/Georgia
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:07 pm to The Boat
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:10 pm to RollTide1987
It wasn’t more complicated than that and Russia’s military contributions to history are nothing more than their willingness to sacrifice millions of their own people. Napoleon was a brilliant tactician early in his career but his later campaigns left a lot to be desired. Great Britain did not have a large standing army, really up until the middle of WW1, and the Prussians didn’t consolidate power until 1870 under Bismarck
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:13 pm to bayoumuscle21
quote:
Hell the two best generals in the Civil War was Jackson and Sherman.
nope, Forrest
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:15 pm to RollTide1987
But what was his best loss? That’s what matters.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:18 pm to RollTide1987
Baw, Lee was playing in the SEC. Napoleon was in the ACC.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:24 pm to biglego
quote:
But what was his best loss? That’s what matters.
Agreed. How they mitigated their losses (not just in numbers) would be my litmus test. I do not think all those smaller battles Napoleon's armies fought were that significant in relation to his defeats. I may be wrong, just a hunch based on what I've read of the man and not his overall war tactics.
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:31 pm to biglego
quote:
But what was his best loss? That’s what matters.
Probably his 1814 campaign in France. He was outnumbered 4-to-1 and had the armies of Russia, Austria, Britain, Prussia, Baden, Bavaria, the Netherlands, Saxony, and Württenberg all bearing down on him. He was so dominant in this campaign, winning battle after battle, that the Allied strategy eventually devolved into one single objective: don't fight Napoleon.
They fought his marshals instead and did their best to steer clear of Napoleon's main force whenever possible. Because just about every time they went up against him - they lost.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:33 pm to RollTide1987
At the end of the day he ends up like everyone else who has walked the earth, dead.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:33 pm to RoyalWe
quote:
Caesar loses points for destroying the Library of Alexandria. How many centuries did this set us back?
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:34 pm to RollTide1987
Khalid ibn al-Walid blows him out the water
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:35 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
He was undefeated but it's very difficult to quantify Alexander's career as the man only commanded armies in 10 battles. Napoleon commanded armies in over 80 different engagements.
Does he get bonus points for actually participating in combat? It’s got to be a lot harder to command a battle while you’re fighting on the front line.
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 2:38 pm
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:35 pm to YNWA
quote:
At the end of the day he ends up like everyone else who has walked the earth, dead.
You're not wrong. However, unlike Napoleon, no one will remember your name.
Posted on 12/10/23 at 2:42 pm to jmarto1
I remembered reading about the Duke of Wellington some years ago. (maybe in an MHQ) that was full of high praise. I know he was a commander in one of the coalitions. Is it true he had to hire mercenaries to defeat Napoleon?
(I'm asking bc Brad Wessley says that at the end of The Living Daylights to James Bond after he ducks behind Wellington's bust and I've always remembered that line. about him being a vulture:)
(I'm asking bc Brad Wessley says that at the end of The Living Daylights to James Bond after he ducks behind Wellington's bust and I've always remembered that line. about him being a vulture:)
This post was edited on 12/10/23 at 2:46 pm
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