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Started By
Message
re: GM delays start of EV production at Michigan plant due to lack of demand
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:13 pm to AndyCBR
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:13 pm to AndyCBR
quote:
And the beauty of this system is almost unlimited power with access to diesel fuel.
Straight electrics can easily put out far more power than diesels but they require a power supply system which has generally been cost prohibitive.
Even with the expense of hanging and maintaining wires (catenary), I'm surprised it hasn't been done on some higher density mountainous routes.
1
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:24 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Even with the expense of hanging and maintaining wires (catenary), I'm surprised it hasn't been done on some higher density mountainous routes.
No reason when a self-contained power unit can provide all the power needed more reliably. Electromotive Diesel is reliable, predictable, and isn't subject to the vagaries of an external power source that is subject to the elements.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:33 pm to Clames
Electric locomotives are generally far more reliable than diesels, cheaper to operate and put out more power while lasting longer. Power supply is rarely an issue.
As stated, the upfront infrastructure costs have always been the tripping point.
That, and diesels can run anywhere while electrics are limited to electrified areas.
As stated, the upfront infrastructure costs have always been the tripping point.
That, and diesels can run anywhere while electrics are limited to electrified areas.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:38 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
120 years or so.
Straight electric locomotives were in service long before diesel-electrics.
I was mainly talking about road/road switcher duty and in the US which as I am sure you know was dominated by steam up until the late 40s early 50s.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:49 pm to Clames
quote:
Except consumers are less concerned with off-idle torque than any number of other factors.
Again from an engineering application POV motors are superior to engines often far superior in almost every metric save the cost and energy issues. Just taking out the transmission issues so many light duty trucks have been plagued with over the years is a massive upside. I pointed out the torque issues because so often towing is one of the big things mentioned as a con for EV trucks. Once the energy storage issues are taken care of EV trucks can be built to be much more effective towing vehicles. Just one small example: when you start up a steep incline there is no need for a transmission to kick down, the torque is just there at any speed and the power delivery is linear.
EV trucks currently have significant limitations and for someone who actually uses their truck like a truck (which I maintain is a limited percentage of truck owners) they are absolutely not a good choice. That doesn't change the huge upside potential when the energy storage solutions match the requirements.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:57 pm to Obtuse1
quote:Its less than 25% for perspective.
which I maintain is a limited percentage of truck owner
Posted on 10/18/23 at 8:58 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I was mainly talking about road/road switcher duty and in the US which as I am sure you know was dominated by steam up until the late 40s early 50s.
Road locomotive-1915
The above operated on a railroad with 660 miles of electrified mainline over 5 mountain ranges in the MT and the PNW.
Road locomotive-1920s
Road locomotive-1910
Just a few examples.
The railroads knew for decades prior to the introduction of reliable diesel freight locomotives, the EMD FT in 1939, that electric traction motors were superior. The infrastructure costs I mention in previous posts are what prevented the wider adoption of straight electrics.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:24 pm to billjamin
quote:
Consumers will warm to it similarly to the cars as more people realize they fit the needs for the vast majority of the population. It just takes time.
Except that the costs of EV materials is not going down. It's going up along with inflation.
No new mines are being opened at anything close to a record pace anywhere in the world, especially in the US with all the red tape. Where are all the minerals going to come from to produce copper, cobalt, etc? There is only one country with an essential monopoly on these things and it is China.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:42 pm to goofball
quote:
They should have looked around and taken it slower.
They would have if the gooberment wasn't stealing our tax $$$ and throwing it at them to push them into producing a bunch of crap nobody wants to buy.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:46 pm to bapple
I hope someday they get the EV trucks where they need to be but I do not see myself buying a new vehicle. (not my thing)
I think it is also fair to say in my lifetime I will not buy a used EV.
While most people do not tow much with their trucks the issue is that many ae not interested in purchasing a truck that currently CANNOT perform this function for the occasional time that they do wish to drive.
Lastly, the subsidies are basically just tbere to buy off the automakers to shut them up about the crazy CAFE standards that are forcing their hand to push vehicles into the market place that ae not ready and not in demand.
I think it is also fair to say in my lifetime I will not buy a used EV.
While most people do not tow much with their trucks the issue is that many ae not interested in purchasing a truck that currently CANNOT perform this function for the occasional time that they do wish to drive.
Lastly, the subsidies are basically just tbere to buy off the automakers to shut them up about the crazy CAFE standards that are forcing their hand to push vehicles into the market place that ae not ready and not in demand.
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:47 pm to bapple
Whats your thoughts on the Ira adders?
Specifically around the domestic content adders?
Specifically around the domestic content adders?
This post was edited on 10/18/23 at 10:52 pm
Posted on 10/18/23 at 10:53 pm to dewster
I be dam......
Posted on 10/18/23 at 11:08 pm to tiggerfan02 2021
quote:
They would have if the gooberment wasn't stealing our tax $$$ and throwing it at them to push them into producing a bunch of crap nobody wants to buy.
Oil and Gas is heavily subsidized
Posted on 10/18/23 at 11:12 pm to 6R12
To clarify the article in the OP, Orion is/will be the second plant to be building the Silverado EV. Hamtramck is currently building them along with the Hummer EV.
I haven't looked up what the current capacity of Hamtramck is, but it has always been a bit of a specialty plant for GM generally building lower production vehicles. Think Buick Reatta.
Orion is an existing plant, but they are spending $4 billion to set it up for Silverado EV production. A new battery plant is also being built nearby.
In another article GM claims they will use the extra time to modify the truck design to lower production costs.
I haven't looked up what the current capacity of Hamtramck is, but it has always been a bit of a specialty plant for GM generally building lower production vehicles. Think Buick Reatta.
Orion is an existing plant, but they are spending $4 billion to set it up for Silverado EV production. A new battery plant is also being built nearby.
In another article GM claims they will use the extra time to modify the truck design to lower production costs.
This post was edited on 10/18/23 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 10/19/23 at 12:13 am to TCO
quote:
Oil and Gas is heavily subsidized
No one wants to talk about that
Posted on 10/19/23 at 5:23 am to agilitydawg
quote:
used EV
Evs are one generation cars, then throw away because of battery cost.
This post was edited on 10/19/23 at 9:18 am
Posted on 10/19/23 at 5:46 am to bapple
quote:
Except that the costs of EV materials is not going down. It's going up along with inflation.
and suppply/demand
I just priced new 20vlith for my cordless tools.
A 2 pack for $170!!! I am going back to the corded ones.
my last replacements didn't even last a year, and were half that price.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 8:45 am to kywildcatfanone
Nice to see we’ve arrived at the misunderstood storage replacement part of every EV thread.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 9:15 am to dewster
I have a subcontractor that has six diesel F-250s and they pull tandem axle trailers all the time. The trailers will usually have an excavator or a boring machine on them. Moving that equipment on the interstate at 70 mph requires reliable power, his employees cannot stand around for 12 hours waiting for the thing to charge up. Also the truck charges up their cordless tools.
I don't believe that an ev truck can pull that loaded trailer 250 miles daily.
I don't believe that an ev truck can pull that loaded trailer 250 miles daily.
Posted on 10/19/23 at 9:22 am to TCO
quote:Please explain.
Oil and Gas is heavily subsidized
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