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Started By
Message
re: Fox Sports Marcellus Wiley says it’s not guns, it’s about people
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:57 am to GhostofLesticleMiles
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:57 am to GhostofLesticleMiles
quote:
Why are gang related shootings excluded?
It would mess up the narrative.
1
Posted on 6/2/22 at 9:58 am to GhostofLesticleMiles
quote:
So you could shoot and injure 20 people and not kill anyone and that doesnt count? Why are gang related shootings excluded? Is this defined according to you, reserch, fbi, etc?
Because it would massively increase the figures for the US.
If you include gang-related shootings and injuries only shootings, the figures increase much further.
It would be so much worse for the US - I excluded them because you guys are the first to point out 'muh gang crimes' when we use the figure for all mass shootings (200+ in 2022 alone including gang crime).
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 10:02 am
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:00 am to PillageUrVillage
quote:
It would mess up the narrative.
No, it wouldn't.
I was excluding them to be able to compare the US to other countries because if I didn't, you guys would be the first to say 'gang crime' accounts for those homicides.
When I include gang crimes, the number of mass shootings the US has is stratospheric. With over 200 mass shootings (that includes gang crimes) in 2022, the US over this past year would have had more mass shootings than most Western countries combined over the past 10 years.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 10:01 am
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:03 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
It's saying the opposite.
No. You’re confused.
quote:
A reduction of 17% is because the waiting period stops 17% of gun homicides from occurring. I'm not sure why this is unrealistic - most murders are committed outside the waiting period of a 5 days/week.
You can’t be this ignorant. You’ve peppered this thread and others with all sorts of statistics you give no sources for, and the first study you actually provide a link to has as its foundation a belief that more than 17% of homicides are committed with guns purchased within 5 days (or one week) of the homicide?
You can’t be serious.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:04 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
So we're not going to look at studies or do anything then. We should do nothing then?
No 2A advocate I know thinks that no efforts, studies, etc. should be made to reduce gun violence. Quite the contrary.
What does become frustrating is the constant villainization of those of us who support and defend a Constitutional right - one so important in fact that our founding fathers established it as the SECOND amendment of our founding document. 2A supporters are not the bad guys. The overwhelming majority aren’t prone to nor will they ever commit a murder with a firearm or other instrument.
What we would like to see is open debate on achievable and Constitutional solutions to gun violence. And for it not to be politicized. Invest resources in security, mental health intervention and treatment from early ages when possible and throughout adolescence and adulthood.
We aren’t just trying to hold guns for evil purposes. We’re exercising a right - a right to self-defense #1 - explicitly granted in a Constitution that has resulted in a long-standing nation of strength and freedom - the strongest and freeest the world has ever known. Eroding that foundation on any level needs to be avoided.
Let’s address the root causes of murder and stop going the anti-gun route as the only option. And while we’re at it address the reason that the large majority of killings are done in inner cities where guns are obtained no matter the gun laws. And not by AR or AK, but by handguns.
It’s a slippery slope the incremental taking of gun rights.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:04 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
When I include gang crimes, the number of mass shootings the US has is stratospheric. With over 200 mass shootings (that includes gang crimes) in 2022, the US over this past year would have had more mass shootings than most Western countries combined over the past 10 years.
Why wouldnt you want the real numbers to get to the crux of the problem? Why exclude certain groups?
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:05 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
They don't count gang crime as part of their definition
Another reason you shouldn't be citing them as a source, alter boy.
Sugar
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:05 am to GhostofLesticleMiles
quote:
Why wouldnt you want the real numbers to get to the crux of the problem? Why exclude certain groups?
Because you guys always try and deflect with 'it's mostly gang crime' when people bring up the total figures up.
I wanted to avoid all that and get to the cruz of the problem which is non-gang-related mass shootings.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:06 am to sugarbuzz
quote:
Another reason you shouldn't be citing them as a source, alter boy.
Dude, I'm doing it so it appears MORE generous for the US, not worse.
If we include gang mass shootings, the US has had over 200 mass shootings this past year alone.
That's more than most Western countries combined for the past two decades.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:08 am to BamaAtl
quote:
If that were true, why are Canadians so much better than Americans? Australians? New Zealanders?
Better? Laughable. Your brainless arse makes the same lame arguments as the Discounted retard. Both of you are miserable failures.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:10 am to LSUChamps03
quote:
Let’s address the root causes of murder and stop going the anti-gun route as the only option. And while we’re at it address the reason that the large majority of killings are done in inner cities where guns are obtained no matter the gun laws. And not by AR or AK, but by handguns.
We have users here who want me to include gang shootings within the figures I cite and others who don't.
I've been citing US mass shootings that are non-gang-related.
I don't see how a waiting period is unconstitutional. Raising the age probably veers the line but I would arguably it's not that unreasonable.
quote:
We aren’t just trying to hold guns for evil purposes. We’re exercising a right - a right to self-defense #1 - explicitly granted in a Constitution that has resulted in a long-standing nation of strength and freedom - the strongest and freeest the world has ever known. Eroding that foundation on any level needs to be avoided.
I'm not advocating for banning guns. While I don't own guns, I have gone to a gun range a few times with friends so I'm not trying to deny anyone their right.
I just think there are some reasonable things that could reduce the number of mass shootings.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:10 am to Clames
quote:
Both of you are miserable failures.
Arguments you don't seem to rebut.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:11 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
Mental illness exists in most societies and will never be eradicated but we shouldn't be giving guns to the mentally ill.
Agreed, it is a people issue not a machine. First you have crazy demented psychopaths and then you have weak people afraid to hurt somebody’s “fweelings” and not turning them in. This is not a machine issue and you should limit another citizens rights!
Thanks for agreeing and now get to work on the people issue!
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:12 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
Because you guys always try and deflect with 'it's mostly gang crime' when people bring up the total figures up.
Im just asking questions. It seems data is being cherry picked to fit a narrative from the definition that you gave? If we are going by numbers we need to include all mass shootings and not exclude certain ones.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:14 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
And I'd rather not live in the past but the present. Talking about how things were less common in the past isn't going to fix the present.
Studying what was different in the past compared to today is the only way to fix the present.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:16 am to DiscountedCashFlow
Move to France then
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:21 am to DiscountedCashFlow
quote:
I'm very capitalist - I'm not sure where I've said the opposite.
I'm culturally liberal and economically right-wing to an extent.
So you vote based on feelings and mean tweets instead of with your wallet like smart, reasonable, rational people do.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:25 am to BamaAtl
quote:
Raising the age for ownership of ar-15's to 21.
Yet we swear in and arm 18 years olds to go fight stupid wars the MIC get our politicians to commit too.
quote:
Red flag laws.
Lots of states already have these. The issue is we now have a weak society that is afraid of hurting peoples feelings.
quote:
Stronger background checks.
Sounds good in theory but why is the currents system failing and what would you add instead of just spouting this off?
quote:
Waiting periods.
Do we have a waiting period on steak knives? What about cars especially for people that had prior DUI’s.
quote:
Lots of options, that you 'still' think you haven't heard one is your problem.
The issue is people, we have a society that by design has the 2nd Amendment. It’s there for a reason and you can’t argue that. However, we completely dismantled the psych care in the US under Reagan. Then the courts have ruled again and again about protecting the rights of mentally ill. And lastly we have created a society, mainly in the Progressive side, that welcomes and actually lauds mental illness. Thus people are afraid to say that piece if shite that kills cats for shits and giggles has issues and needs to be forced into a facility.
It’s not a gun issue and you shouldn’t be penalizing law abiding citizens.
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:31 am to David_DJS
quote:
You can’t be this ignorant. You’ve peppered this thread and others with all sorts of statistics you give no sources for, and the first study you actually provide a link to has as its foundation a belief that more than 17% of homicides are committed with guns purchased within 5 days (or one week) of the homicide?
I've given statistics and sources for every piece of data I've provided.
quote:
more than 17% of homicides are committed with guns purchased within 5 days (or one week) of the homicide?
It's comparing people who purchased guns and then went on to kill after the waiting period or before the waiting period, so not all gun owners but recent gun purchasers.
It's a reduction in gun homicides from recent gun purchasers so it's not all gun homicides but of a subset of them.
quote:
a belief that more than 17% of homicides are committed with guns purchased within 5 days (or one week) of the homicide?
No, it's that of guns purchased when there's a waiting period and when there's not a waiting period.
So the coefficient shows there's a 17% reduction in killings from guns purchased recently. It's not saying that of all gun homicides, it's saying there's a 17% reduction in homicides from recently purchased guns.
This post was edited on 6/2/22 at 10:32 am
Posted on 6/2/22 at 10:32 am to Beauw
quote:
Move to France then
I mean I'm not in the US right now so yes?
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